The labour Leader thread...

Dicehunter said:
Because of thatcher and her actions she introduced a new underclass in this country which wouldn't have existed had it not been for her.

I'm neither labour, conservative or lib dem but all have good points at times non are right all the time.

The problem with the english government is it goes to war on it's own people over and over again and one of the major problems is the english people keep making excuses for them, Playing right into there hands when they are literally laughing at you all the way to the bank.



That's because a good portion of labour mp's aren't labour, They are tory, Even a blind man could see this.
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because people are afraid of change, once a tory voter always a tory voter etc etc...

unless they are privately educated, suited and booted, and dodge questions you stand no chance

Jeremy will be gone within a year, he doesn't 'fit' with peoples expectations
 
Quote: This is the type of hard talk I engaged in when I spoke at a commemoration of the hunger striker Bobby Sands last week.

Just for those of you who don't know: Bobby Sands - slimmer of the year 1981.
 
Dicehunter said:
That's because a good portion of labour mp's aren't labour, They are tory, Even a blind man could see this.
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I think it's a lot more than these new labour politicians simply can't identify with Tory, there are many differences between new labour and Tory. Plus old labour can't just appear again from behind Blair's shadow and say oh this is actually what Labour was all along.
 
It pretty simple, times are changing and a labour party simply cannot run a country without conceding that we are a capitalist country and you cannot just beat the wealthy with a stick like a massive pinata.

Both parties are more middle of the road that they have traditionally been because thats where most peoples views sit. I have no issue with a lot of the ideas of Corbyn but if he thinks he can actually do what he suggests he is more of a nutter than I thought. He would genuinely ruin this country in a few years. Ruin it to the point where it would take a long long time to repair the damage.

I'm also pretty sure that a lot of what he wants to do is actually illegal and would run a lot of employers and businesses out of the country.
 
Zethor said:
If Corbyn wins Scotland back no ammount of mouth foaming from right wingers will prevent Labour from winning.
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Do you really think that all the labour supporters in this country will back Corbyn? If anything I think he will alienate a large amount of their support rather than increase it.
 
fez said:
It pretty simple, times are changing and a labour party simply cannot run a country without conceding that we are a capitalist country and you cannot just beat the wealthy with a stick like a massive pinata.

Both parties are more middle of the road that they have traditionally been because thats where most peoples views sit. I have no issue with a lot of the ideas of Corbyn but if he thinks he can actually do what he suggests he is more of a nutter than I thought. He would genuinely ruin this country in a few years. Ruin it to the point where it would take a long long time to repair the damage.

I'm also pretty sure that a lot of what he wants to do is actually illegal and would run a lot of employers and businesses out of the country.
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I'm pretty sure he won't ruin the country. If he can't come up with plausible, feasible plans for how to run the country, his MPs aren't going to allow him to enact those plans. He'd have to win a pretty convincing majority, with the appointment of a lot of new Left-wing MPs, to be able to do anything he wants. Anything short of that and he'll need a watertight plan that's backed by all groups in the PLP.
 
Zethor said:
If Corbyn wins Scotland back no ammount of mouth foaming from right wingers will prevent Labour from winning.
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The chances of that are unlikely.
I am from a long family line of voting labour and from what they tell me Corbyn will never ever get their vote he's simply too dangerous.
They said they would have voted for Burnham but think Corbyn is positively anti-British and absolutely pro everything that's anti-western.
As he hates this country so much I wonder why he lives here at all and not in Cuba or Palestine.
 
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satchef1 said:
I'm pretty sure he won't ruin the country. If he can't come up with plausible, feasible plans for how to run the country, his MPs aren't going to allow him to enact those plans. He'd have to win a pretty convincing majority, with the appointment of a lot of new Left-wing MPs, to be able to do anything he wants. Anything short of that and he'll need a watertight plan that's backed by all groups in the PLP.
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My point is that if he gets into power with the backing to enact his plans then he will ruin the country. If he gets in as part of a coalition or without the support he requires then he will just get shut down in every area that makes him unique and will just become another politician accused of failing to enact all of their election policies.

Most of his ideas are plausible and feasible but they will have negative consequences when the victims of his plans fight back or leave.

National wage limit - you can't do that, that would genuinely lead to a huge number of people leaving or as it is now, they would just find ways around it.

Stop tax avoidance/evasion. We would already have this problem solved if it was possible. My dad works in tax and it riles him no end but you have the government embroiled in these cases for years and years and its the government lawyers vs billion pound companies and the best lawyers in the world. You shut down one loophole and another is already ready to be used.

Stop companies exploiting the loopholes of international tax law and you may drive them out of the country and lose jobs and the tax they do pay.

Education - another aspect of society that is apparently easy to fix. We have a system that allows children to learn. Is it the education system that lets children down or is it their upbringing that places no merit on learning and is in direct conflict with the school. Most underperforming schools are in impoverished areas and the parents are 90% of the problem. "I didn't learn at school and I'm alright" mentality.

Renationalising energy - how do we take back control over these without either paying a kings ransom or essentially telling companies that you can invest in the UK but we might decide that you are making too much and we are just going to take it back when it suits us.

Most of his ideas are nice but impractical and have severe consequences if they were actually implemented.
 
John40 said:
The chances of that are unlikely.
I am from a long family line of voting labour and from what they tell me Corbyn will never ever get their vote he's simply too dangerous.
They said they would have voted for Burnham but think Corbyn is positively anti-British and absolutely pro everything that's anti-western.
As he hates this country so much I wonder why he lives here at all and not in Cuba or Palestine.
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You don't sound like a Labour voter, UKIP sounds more like your natural home.

fez said:
My point is that if he gets into power with the backing to enact his plans then he will ruin the country. If he gets in as part of a coalition or without the support he requires then he will just get shut down in every area that makes him unique and will just become another politician accused of failing to enact all of their election policies.

Most of his ideas are plausible and feasible but they will have negative consequences when the victims of his plans fight back or leave.

National wage limit - you can't do that, that would genuinely lead to a huge number of people leaving or as it is now, they would just find ways around it.

Stop tax avoidance/evasion. We would already have this problem solved if it was possible. My dad works in tax and it riles him no end but you have the government embroiled in these cases for years and years and its the government lawyers vs billion pound companies and the best lawyers in the world. You shut down one loophole and another is already ready to be used.

Stop companies exploiting the loopholes of international tax law and you may drive them out of the country and lose jobs and the tax they do pay.

Education - another aspect of society that is apparently easy to fix. We have a system that allows children to learn. Is it the education system that lets children down or is it their upbringing that places no merit on learning and is in direct conflict with the school. Most underperforming schools are in impoverished areas and the parents are 90% of the problem. "I didn't learn at school and I'm alright" mentality.

Renationalising energy - how do we take back control over these without either paying a kings ransom or essentially telling companies that you can invest in the UK but we might decide that you are making too much and we are just going to take it back when it suits us.

Most of his ideas are nice but impractical and have severe consequences if they were actually implemented.
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I agree with your points on energy but the others not so sure.

Regarding taxation, the UK has historically been a roadblock for implementing EU/international tax laws. For domestic tax avoidance, if your do indeed know somebody who works in tax collection on the avoidance front you would be aware as to how under-funded they are. At this point in time we spend significantly more on communications & wages to combat benefit fraud than we do on tax avoidance (when the latter is expected to be within 50 & 100 times larger in magnitude).

A more intelligent marshalling of resources & ensuring the authorities have the mandate/the ability to add new laws in to quickly close oversights is what's needed.

What I do on the other hand find strange is that a newly elected leader of the opposition is expected to have watertight financial credibility when our existing chancellor of the exchequer is going against a majority of economists & stifling economic growth purely based on an ideological opposition to welfare & the role of the state. Coupled with failing to meet every single one of his own targets & greatly increasing the size of our debt.
 
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elmarko said:
Regarding taxation, the UK has historically been a roadblock for implementing EU/international tax laws. For domestic tax avoidance, if your do indeed know somebody who works in tax collection on the avoidance front you would be aware as to how under-funded they are.
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He is constantly bemoaning the lack of investment in it. This has been going on for years and is nothing new under the Tories. Much of his job is being replaced by computer systems that use algorithms to determine if someones taxes look suspect. I have had many discussions with him about how people and companies get away with avoiding tax. He deals with the personal side of it as opposed to businesses which is a whole other issue. His general view is that the government simple cannot afford to fight most cases in court effectively and they are fighting a losing battle. They never recover all the costs and most of the time the person has used a scheme that was legal under the law at the time and they can shut down use of that method in future but the amount of money to be made by these schemes dwarfs any potential penalties and there are a lot of very smart people trying to invent new ones.

Private sector tends to suck up the most skilled people in almost every industry because they can offer vastly superior salaries.

elmarko said:
A more intelligent marshalling of resources & ensuring the authorities have the mandate/the ability to add new laws in to quickly close oversights is what's needed.
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Its very hard to do that as a lot of laws are far reaching and you can end up opening up other loopholes when you close one. A lot of them are also super complex and have legitimate uses. You also cannot just pass laws that affect a large number of people without due process. This is one of the big issues. Well resourced individuals can stall these things for years.
 
I'm a tory voter but that video seems a little "soundbitey". There is a difference between believing that someone should be tried in a court of law and believing that he shouldn't be hunted down and brought to justice.

I tend to agree about the armed forces. I don't know enough about international politics to say whether our influence and place in the world would be affected by a reduction in our military capabilities but I do think that we take it a little too seriously.

The known terrorists bit is again a little like saying that every member of any organisation is in complete agreement with all actions and views of the groups leadership. It also discounts the fact that what is seen by some as a terrorist group is seen by others as a opposition or liberation group. You can't accuse a ruling government of terrorism regardless of what they do so the opposition and their actions are all that is left to be labelled.
 
Considering the great unfathomable success of "intervention", maybe taking a step back would be prudent.

The US have all but abandoned the area to strengthen the pacific forces, we shouldn't be forced to deal with their crap they failed to clean up.
 
Wizzfizz said:
Good ol' scaremongering by the opposition
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You cant blame them for going down that route, its the easiest thing in the world to condem a man using own words.

They have 30 years of Corbyns raving nonsense to call upon, expect every single bit of it to be used.
 
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