Stop drinking tea on moral grounds?

[FoxEye]

+1 here. Boycotting tea won't do anything.

In fact if a lot of people stopped drink tea, they'd probably try to pay less to the producers to safeguard profits.

I know. But what the heck can we do?

Is the answer genuinely "nothing"?

 

[Doug73458]

That's capitalism for ya

 

[dowie]

You shouldn't drink black tea anyway, it causes skeletal fluorosis. Especially with the B-grade fluoride our governments put in our water supply.
Why do you think older people need so many hip replacements and have so many joint pains.

cos they're old....

 

[dirtychinchilla]

That is atrocious. I don't think it reflect much onto their space program, though. Their country is enormous; we couldn't control such a large population. We should keep giving foreign aid otherwise they'd still be spending it on the space program, and even less would reach the poor.

 

[gradyhawks]

In fact if a lot of people stopped drink tea, they'd probably try to pay less to the producers to safeguard profits.

I know. But what the heck can we do?

Is the answer genuinely "nothing"?

You're right, the producers would just lay people off as demand decreases. Only thing you could kind of do is do some research and find a company that does pay the workers a decent amount.

That said, if they earn more they will only use it to pay peanuts to someone else down the line. That's how it works. Unfortunately.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

You're right, the producers would just lay people off as demand decreases. Only thing you could kind of do is do some research and find a company that does pay the workers a decent amount.

That said, if they earn more they will only use it to pay peanuts to someone else down the line. That's how it works. Unfortunately.

I think you're right, and I'm also sure that you'd struggle to consume any products if you knew their true story, as sad as that is

 

[gradyhawks]

I think you're right, and I'm also sure that you'd struggle to consume any products if you knew their true story, as sad as that is

The way I see it, you can't have a 1st world without a 3rd world.

 

[Curio]

Watched a short BBC report last night about workers in the tea industry in India. Truly appalling as I drink a lot of tea.

The "tea estates" are responsible for housing their workers, and providing for their needs.

Now in India, the reporter says, the "public" are supposed to be permitted to enter the tea estates at any time to check conditions for the workers. Well it didn't take long for the heavies to come in and chuck them out, demanding they stop filming, etc.

Why behave like this? Something to hide, naturally.

One woman says the last time they had a working toilet was 30 years ago. The workers say they are forced to **** in the fields between the tea bushes - nice to think about that one when you're drinking the tea

The housing is awful. They don't even have proper roofs. The rain comes right in and naturally there is no electricity. A room the size of a broom cupboard is shared by 8 people.

They are paid £1/day for working all day. These people are far worse off than the Syrian immigrants. This isn't a short term deal. This is how they will live their entire lives. They've never seen a mobile phone, or possessed anywhere near £3k to pay someone to smuggle them out. And yet there's never been any outcry in the media, and I've never seen any report about this before today.

Now we have all heard about the "Fair Trade" scheme. When it comes to tea, the FT logo is meaningless. The same tea estates supply the non-FT brands as the FT varieties. It is just there to make you feel good when buying, and there is literally no benefit at all for the workers. Which is terrible because it makes us distrust such schemes in future.

Later they interviewed an estate manager (in a plush office, naturally), and he says, "Of course we are concerned and will make efforts to improve." Given that they haven't fixed toilets that last worked for 30 years ago, and are happy for employees to crap in the fields, I can't believe this for one second.

India appears not to even give half a crap about its poor. Disgusting that we've been giving them aid while they've been spending money on a space programme. If they cared at all they could move against the tea esates, but they don't.

So as much as I love tea (I really do!), continuing to drink it would be tantamount to an acceptance of this kind of exploitation. It was different while I was ignorant of it. There are no brands that offer workers a decent deal.

Of course giving it up will have no beneficial effect at all on the lives of these people. And if I dig into the fruit juice industry it's probably the same story everywhere.

But I feel I ought to. Even if it accomplishes nothing.

I'm sure there must be some groups (tea activists?) who are campaigning to improve this situation. Maybe see if you can join them and make a difference? It's good to be passionate about the rights of others. Personally I'm too lazy and like all my cheap stuff imported from poor countries

 

[Bennie-Mac]

I'm glad my tea comes from China where no human rights violations ever occur. Just like 99% of the other stuff I own.

 

[FoxEye]

The way I see it, you can't have a 1st world without a 3rd world.

On the flip side, we could quite comfortably sacrifice some (much?) of our wealth without meaningfully decreasing our quality of life.

A 46" TV would suffice, that 60" TV is not essential Having a TV in three or more rooms is a /little/ extravagant.

Everybody here having a laptop, tablet, smartphone and kindle is again a little OTT... when do you get time to use them all?

Personally I think we could all be 2nd world countries and still enjoy our lives. 1st world really is synonymous with opulence and waste. Could we ditch some of our extremely consumerist ways yet still be leaders in science and technology? Probably.

P.S. I'm not wealthy.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Personally I think we could all be 2nd world countries and still enjoy our lives.

2nd world country doesn't mean what you think it means...

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

+1 here. Boycotting tea won't do anything.

But paying a bit more and getting fair trade and responsibly sourced products will.
Sadly though many people's selfishness dwarfs any empathy or compassion they might have for people less fortunate then themselves!!

 

[FoxEye]

2nd world country doesn't mean what you think it means...

You're right. I never actually precisely found out what those terms mean. Just assumed that 1st world = the West, 3rd world = NA, ME, etc and 2nd world was some kind of theoretical point between them.

I should probably find out what it means in reality

But paying a bit more and getting fair trade and responsibly sourced products will.
Sadly though many people's selfishness dwarfs any empathy or compassion they might have for people less fortunate then themselves!!

When it comes to the tea trade, the "Fair Trade" brand is literally nothing more than marketing. Buying FT tea is useless.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

You're right. I never actually precisely found out what those terms mean. Just assumed that 1st world = the West, 3rd world = NA, ME, etc and 2nd world was some kind of theoretical point between them.

I should probably find out what it means in reality

Socialist republics, basically. USSR and it's satellite states, China, Cuba, etc. It's not used any more really for obvious reasons.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

When it comes to the tea trade, the "Fair Trade" brand is literally nothing more than marketing. Buying FT tea is useless.

Got any credible evidence to back that claim up or did you pull it out your ass / read it in the daily mail ??

Although a lot more is still needed to be done it certainly sounds like Fair-trade Tea is making a difference and striding to improve further
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/fairtrade-partner-zone/fairtrade-real-cost-chep-tea

 

[joeyjojo]

Now we have all heard about the "Fair Trade" scheme. When it comes to tea, the FT logo is meaningless. The same tea estates supply the non-FT brands as the FT varieties. It is just there to make you feel good when buying, and there is literally no benefit at all for the workers. Which is terrible because it makes us distrust such schemes in future.

Says who?

The Ethical Consumer special report on tea (Dec 2013) is quite positive about Fairtrade, certainly more than other certifications (emphasis added):

Which label is better, and why?

The main concern being raised in this article is that the recent entry of more business-friendly initiatives such as Rainforest Alliance and Utz Certified into the tea sector is ‘muddying the waters’; that is, masking real differences between themselves and more established labels such as Fairtrade and Organic by superficially echoing common values and objectives.

This is not to claim that Fairtrade and Organic are without flaws; they have both received sustained criticism from a number of angles. (See, for example, the article on Living Wages.) However, from an ethical point of view, there are arguably a greater number of questions for Rainforest Alliance.

One downside of choosing Rainforest Alliance is that as little as 30% of the product you purchase from the supermarket is guaranteed to be sourced from Rainforest Alliance-certified farms or estates. In addition, there are few Rainforest Alliance standards that you can easily grasp and objectively verify.

Organic has the most stringent and detailed environmental criteria of any ethical label. On the other hand, Fairtrade certification guarantees a handful of core benefits that anyone can understand – most notably minimum prices, premiums, and access to credit. Rainforest Alliance, in contrast, is competing for the middle market, with laudable yet vague standards across the socio-economic and environmental spectrum.

While some have correctly highlighted the fact that few Fairtrade farmers can sell all (or even half) of their tea at the Fairtrade price,1 responsibility for this lack of demand is also closely linked to the rush to support more mainstream options by the big multinationals dominating the tea industry.

Rainforest Alliance is undoubtedly working to train farmers up to improve the quality of their tea, as well as taking real steps in collaboration with the Forest Stewardship Council to make tea production more sustainable. But in order to foster real development, farmers need a basic level of income stability and security, and arguably only Fairtrade – or even better, double-certified Fairtrade-Organic – can bring this stability.

 

[gradyhawks]

But paying a bit more and getting fair trade and responsibly sourced products will.
Sadly though many people's selfishness dwarfs any empathy or compassion they might have for people less fortunate then themselves!!

You're kidding yourself if you think that is the case. It would take a combined effort from everyone in the entire world to make a difference, not paying 50 pence more for tea bags. Those workers that get £1 a day working then pay some other poor sod £0.50 per day for their food, who then pays £0.10 for theirs and it keeps going till you are right at the very bottom.

On the flip side, we could quite comfortably sacrifice some (much?) of our wealth without meaningfully decreasing our quality of life.

A 46" TV would suffice, that 60" TV is not essential Having a TV in three or more rooms is a /little/ extravagant.

Everybody here having a laptop, tablet, smartphone and kindle is again a little OTT... when do you get time to use them all?

Personally I think we could all be 2nd world countries and still enjoy our lives. 1st world really is synonymous with opulence and waste. Could we ditch some of our extremely consumerist ways yet still be leaders in science and technology? Probably.

P.S. I'm not wealthy.

Just grabbing some very quickly found sources, from the BBC:

The total value of world income is closing in on $70 trillion (£43.9tn) per year, andthere are seven billion people in the world, so the average income is heading towards $10,000 (£6,273) per person per year. Easy.

Could you live on £6k a year? Sure. Would it be as easy as getting a smaller TV and just a single tablet/phone? No.

 

[FoxEye]

And yet tea coming from tea estates (exploitative, not cooperatives at all) finds its way into FT branded tea...

 

[EdwardTeach]

India is generally **** in terms of access to toilet. Most rural people **** in the woods. So whilst the conditions in the plantations might be **** poor it doesn't represent a downgrade.
Shocking wealth differentials and total disregard for anyone else is standard in India, you might as well boycott all their goods and cultural outputs if you care that much, no point picking on tea. Boycott will only hurt the tea workers though.

 

[FoxEye]

Could you live on £6k a year? Sure. Would it be as easy as getting a smaller TV and just a single tablet/phone? No.

True, but we can bring people out of extreme poverty without everybody earning the same wage.

The amount we'd have to sacrifice to bring all the worlds poor out of extreme poverty wouldn't be anywhere near that bad.