If this gains momentum it will be interesting to see how the wider public and tabloids react to the subject of the standard argument against tube strikes ("but they earn more than doctors, that's not right!") also going on strike.
Save the NHS!
- Thread starter scorza
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If this gains momentum it will be interesting to see how the wider public and tabloids react to the subject of the standard argument against tube strikes ("but they earn more than doctors, that's not right!") also going on strike.
It's a tricky situation really, because this is something that deserves a strike, but doctors can't really strike the same way tube drivers can. People still get sick and doctors in critical care roles will always turn up to work, even on strike days, because they're professionals.
It'll end up in a situation like the GP strike a few years ago, where everyone turns up to work anyway and just wear those silly badges.
It'll end up in a situation like the GP strike a few years ago, where everyone turns up to work anyway and just wear those silly badges.
Ultimately the thing that makes doctors really good people (the desire to help sick people) also makes them absolutely terrible at negotiating with their employers. A doctor isn't going to walk out on someone coughing up blood because there isn't an agreement for any overtime in place. I'll happily walk away from a downed network if my employer treats me like crap and doesn't pay OT. But nobody would die in that situation.
Just to point out that "omg 36%" doesn't make the 6% figure a lie. Because the total of that entire 9bn + is less than the NHS spend son diabetes a year let alone total funding ....
Excuse my ignorance but wouldn't 100% of contracts go to private providers? They hardly need to write a contract with themselves. I presume contracts are only involved when there isn't the accountability that comes from being part of the NHS involved, which by definition will be private sector organisations.
Not quite true tbh. I know when they've phoned up before with no agreed rate a doctor going "sure I'll come in 100 pound an hour" think it was mainly a joke but it was still cheaper than a locum so they said yes.
We did some calculations and my wife would take a £10k hit. This is less than others. When changes like that affect the ability to pay mortgages or changing your plans for a family it certainly crosses a line. The government are exploiting the situation. However , there is support from consultants and senior doctors - they will be happy to cover the roles of juniors so they can strike. Stop elective and non urgent procedures. But this is risky still. The government can spin this quite easily. The details are often lost to the public.
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Basically the banding varies from job to job depending on how many out of hours work you do - being removed.
And they've changed what is considered out of hours which I mentioned.
There are also supplements eg for gp training to promote more people going into this field - even with the supplement it's heavily undersubcribed. These are being removed.
There are also no mechanisms to monitor hours worked by juniors which leaves it open to abuse. When the working time directive was implemented this limited it to 48 hours -I still worked way more when I was a jumior but at least there was some monitoring at the time.
EDIT : proposed normal hours are actually 7 am to 10pm!
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Will the proposed changes benefit patients?
Given the performance delta between the core hours and unsociable hours outcomes, the reforms in general will.
The normalisation of service is long overdue.
How will less qualified doctors working longer hours for less pay benefit patients?
No - there is a chronic under supply of doctors within the NHS already. The new contract is offering a salary less than a McDonalds manager and yet it involves long unsociable hours and taking responsibility of life and death decisions (before we even consider the huge educational effort to get to this stage and huge professional fees that all doctors must pay each year to work).
All that will happen is that doctors will move abroad or simply retrain. All in all this is the final nail in the NHS and another step in the governments plan to privatise the NHS
No, they won't.
You're taking a really simplistic view on what is a complicated issue.
What the reforms will do is lower morale in a profession where it is already at an all time low. That's why record numbers of younger doctors are emigrating and older doctors are taking early retirement.
It does, they clearly and repeatedly state having overworked junior doctors doing ridiculous length shifts is going to negatively affect patient health.
Let's face it a knackered and demotivated doctor worried about his bills at 10pm after already being there for 12+ hours isn't likely to be the most focused on his job.
He'll you tried to put the hours doctors worked into practice with something like aircraft work and they'd throw you out in two seconds for being dangerously mad
I agree - the problem is that the government have made it illegal for doctors to go on strike now, which coupled with a control over the press leaves a hopeless situation. If the general public knew what was going on I imagine there was be uproar and a push to save the NHS
Caporegime
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I've started looking for jobs overseas. I love the idea of the NHS and will be sad to leave but if you want to slap me with an arbitrary pay cut I'll go elsewhere. I've spent 6 years at Uni and a further 8 years training in Paediatrics. I'm expected to deal independently with severely ill and dying children, change jobs and cities at 6 weeks notice every 6 months, work shifts until I'm in my late 60s but be paid less than a tube driver or a "physicians assistant" - jog on.
Since I've started working we've had pension cuts, increments stopped and now a significant paycut under the guise of a new contract.
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I think the governments plans either show they are clear in wanting to break the current system to see it fail or that they are so far from understanding the depth and breadth of feeling from the medical profession that strike action is almost inevitable.
In the past when there was strike action on the pension changes which were huge I didn't know even 1 doctor that wanted or indeed did strike despite the massive effect it had on our pension. Now if I ask colleagues I see people who are thinking of resubscribing to the BMA so that they CAN strike if balloted (this will cost them around £400). Never before have I seen such a level of ill feeling. The beginnings of a united front from juniors and seniors, primary and secondary care has started which is unprecidented
There is absolutely zero good will left in the profession that has been working their butts off to try and keep things working, yet is constantly denigrated by the government and its media machine. The amount that is done above and beyond contracts is huge and this will end if the government continue with their agenda. The problems of recruitment are very clear and have largely been ignored, despite having been shouted about by the profession for a decade, and the current talk for contracts will only exacerbate this. This will have a very clear effect on patient care Dolph when the numbers drop. Doctors are beginning to vote with their feet and go elsewhere. If I wasn't settled with family I would have already left, and I can't do anything other than recommend this as an option when asked by my junior colleagues. My local deanery had only 51% of its GP training places filled this year. I was speaking with someone from the deanery and apparently around 9% of newly qualified doctors are not actually practicing medicine at all after their F1 year choosing to switch careers after seeing what their future holds. I used to do a careers talk to pupils at my wife's school about medicine, but I have had to say I won't do this now as I can't recommend it right now as a career to a bunch of impressionable 16-17 year olds
In the past when there was strike action on the pension changes which were huge I didn't know even 1 doctor that wanted or indeed did strike despite the massive effect it had on our pension. Now if I ask colleagues I see people who are thinking of resubscribing to the BMA so that they CAN strike if balloted (this will cost them around £400). Never before have I seen such a level of ill feeling. The beginnings of a united front from juniors and seniors, primary and secondary care has started which is unprecidented
There is absolutely zero good will left in the profession that has been working their butts off to try and keep things working, yet is constantly denigrated by the government and its media machine. The amount that is done above and beyond contracts is huge and this will end if the government continue with their agenda. The problems of recruitment are very clear and have largely been ignored, despite having been shouted about by the profession for a decade, and the current talk for contracts will only exacerbate this. This will have a very clear effect on patient care Dolph when the numbers drop. Doctors are beginning to vote with their feet and go elsewhere. If I wasn't settled with family I would have already left, and I can't do anything other than recommend this as an option when asked by my junior colleagues. My local deanery had only 51% of its GP training places filled this year. I was speaking with someone from the deanery and apparently around 9% of newly qualified doctors are not actually practicing medicine at all after their F1 year choosing to switch careers after seeing what their future holds. I used to do a careers talk to pupils at my wife's school about medicine, but I have had to say I won't do this now as I can't recommend it right now as a career to a bunch of impressionable 16-17 year olds