How far is this VW thing going to go?

mrk said:
Having recently come back from a country where Diesel is virtually non existent, and then breathing in inner city London air - You can sympathise with those that wear those masks over here. The air is just far far dirtier and I wouldn't be surprised if there is some legitimacy to that claim.
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Not sure if serious. Diesel is everywhere in Canada, what do you think those trucks run on?

North American cities are no strangers to the sort of smog clouds most people in the UK have never seen.
 
I think it's premature to even guess how far this will go. It could be an isolated case, or the tip of an enormous iceberg, or anything in-between.

One report did suggest that the same testing that caught VW out passed a BMW (530D I think) without any problems. So it may merely highlight poor VW diesel engine design, and the rest are honest.

Or, just as LIBOR was only one banking scandal, indicating a skunk mindset in bankers, maybe BMW didn't pull that stunt because they didn't need to, but pulled some other equally obnoxious trickery instead. And maybe, so did everyone else.

Moreover, if bankers are skunks, and car makers prove to be skunks, who else, and over what? After all, even charities have been up to some pretty low tricks and if we can't trust whose whose whole reason for being is to selflessly help others, who can we trust?

I wish I could buy shares in cynicism. I'd make a fortune in the next few years. :D


Seems to me that we need a far, far more rigorous, and intelligent, testing regime, and it's first job is to retest a sample of cars from all manufacturers, or certainly, major ones. Oh, and an absolute ban on industry lobbying on the nature, design, or implementation of those tests. No more easy to rig processes.

My gut is that while this just might prove to be VW alone, US only, and diesel only, time will probably reveal it to be much more widespread.
 
I suspect it will turn out to be "most" diesels and also that there has been cheating going on with petrol cars too.

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
One thing I have always wondered, and engineers educate/ correct me on this;

Diesel for some time now has been hailed as the go to fuel for both efficiency and emissions. How though, seeing as diesel is refine less, once used is a cleaner fuel (less emissions?) or have I got this wrong?

Also regarding refineries. When a refinery is built aren't he % of different by products fixed permanently? So for the crude oil going in a set amount will then be made into petroleum, diesel etc?

So a refinery can not change how much petroleum or diesel it refines from a set amount of crude oil?

Basically meaning when the demand for diesel increased, supply couldn't (from within out own refineries).
 
balky12 said:
Shaun of the Dead? It's not that old!
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Could be, also:

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Discussing emissions.
 
Greebo said:
I suspect it will turn out to be "most" diesels and also that there has been cheating going on with petrol cars too.

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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I think you are right.
Emissions controls are hard to beat and takes considerable R&D costs, the result ultimately means lowering engine performance. Cheating is much easier and cheaper.

Car safety is apparently also likely to come into the spot light. Car manufactures design cars to pass the safety tests but not necessarily be any safer on the road.
 
balky12 said:
One thing I have always wondered, and engineers educate/ correct me on this;

Diesel for some time now has been hailed as the go to fuel for both efficiency and emissions. How though, seeing as diesel is refine less, once used is a cleaner fuel (less emissions?) or have I got this wrong?

Also regarding refineries. When a refinery is built aren't he % of different by products fixed permanently? So for the crude oil going in a set amount will then be made into petroleum, diesel etc?

So a refinery can not change how much petroleum or diesel it refines from a set amount of crude oil?

Basically meaning when the demand for diesel increased, supply couldn't (from within out own refineries).
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There is basically more energy stored in 1 liter of diesel than petrol, especially since petrol now is a mix with 10% or even 15% ethanol (at least it is in the US).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_efficiency

10% Ethanol petrol mix has 33.7 MJ/l, Diesel has 38.6MJ/l

There may also be other difference, higher efficiency energy conversion, or the way that more premium gas with higher octane can be compressed more and produce more power (in correctly designed engines).
 
I really hope it spells the death of diesel cars. Filthy, filthy fuel.
I doubt it will have any effect in Europe though. We have already fallen in love with diesel cars to the exclusion of everything else.
 
Rilot said:
I really hope it spells the death of diesel cars. Filthy, filthy fuel.
I doubt it will have any effect in Europe though. We have already fallen in love with diesel cars to the exclusion of everything else.
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Pollution targets will have an effect. Just wait until mayors start charging for driving a diesel in their towns or even councils start charging extra for parking them outside homes. Even the Chancellor is to consider tax changes for polluting cars.
 
Rilot said:
I really hope it spells the death of diesel cars. Filthy, filthy fuel.
I doubt it will have any effect in Europe though. We have already fallen in love with diesel cars to the exclusion of everything else.
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Don't tar all of us with that same disgusting sooty brush!
 
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