Hajj pligrimage crush

dowie · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:01

Hitman_Leon said:
I surmise in the present situation with IS making threats, someone in a crowd over there could simply drop something as they walked and any sharp noise be wrongly interpreted as a terror attack starting.

IS isn't going to bomb mecca....

and these mass deaths have been going on at the Hajj for a while now - the issue is the lack of crowd control by the Saudi authorities despite repeated incidents... they impose token measures then carry on as usual

dowie · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:02

MattU said:
Did you work for South Yorkshire police in the 80s?

are you denying there was an issue with hooligans then

or that there are differences between types of crowds - why don't we need so much control at a cricket/Rugby match compared to a football match for example?

balky12 · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:03

Won't be a problem when Saudi build 200 mosques in Germany...

It's all God's will... so let's move on... the 700+ are all clearly better off now. :rolleyes:

Freefaller · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:05

dowie said:
I didn't say it had got anything to do with safety... it is completely removed from safety - it is sticking your head in the sand... oh they're with god now/its god's will etc..

Yes and what I'm saying that it is a grieving sentence, and nothing to do with "accepting" that this will happen. So I don't understand why you're picking up on that particular sentiment/phrase?

It doesn't mitigate what has happened or makes it okay, I believe Sho was posting to show some solidarity and/or sparing a thought for those that have died. Like we say "thoughts and prayers are with you" when something bad happens. It's a turn of phrase.

Again I may have misinterpreted what Sho was saying.

Metallifux · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:06

dowie said:
are you denying there was an issue with hooligans then

or that there are differences between types of crowds - why don't we need so much control at a cricket/Rugby match compared to a football match for example?

I don't think anyone is denying that, but it also has nothing to do with what happened at Hillsborough.

Freefaller · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:07

balky12 said:
Won't be a problem when Saudi build 200 mosques in Germany...

It's all God's will... so let's move on... the 700+ are all clearly better off now.

Hajj is a pilgrimage - it is one of the 5 pillars of Islam that a Muslim must do at least once (IIRC), so irrespective of how many mosques they build, it will still be THE holy place to visit and do your pilgrimage.

So I don't get your point or were you trying to possibly make a slightly offensive anti Islam post?

dowie · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:08

Metallifux said:
I don't think anyone is denying that, but it also has nothing to do with what happened at Hillsborough.

What does that have to do with my post - I've not mentioned Hillsborough?

Metallifux · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:11

dowie said:
What does that have to do with my post - I've not mentioned Hillsborough?

No but you did critique the post mentioning South Yorkshire police which alluded to it. I have obviously picked it up wrong.

Neil79 · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:11

deuse said:
"They converge on Mina to throw stones at pillars representing the devil." Maybe the devil has had enough of it? .

or maybe religion just doesn't work the way they think it does?

dowie · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:12

Metallifux said:
No but you did critique the post mentioning South Yorkshire police which alluded to it. I have obviously picked it up wrong.

yes you have, I critiqued that post as it was directly quoting my post... if you care to go back and read.

Hitman_Leon · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:15

dowie said:
IS isn't going to bomb mecca....

It seems they have made threats to that effect.

Metallifux · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:16

dowie said:
yes you have, I critiqued that post as it was directly quoting my post... if you care to go back and read.

I did, just you know mentioning football fans, in a thread about people being crushed, in a thread where Hillsborough has already been mentioned more than once, I jumped to a conclusion.

Johno please? · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:16

This life is just a waiting room though isnt it?

So why are they bothered? Rubber dingy rapids bro.

balky12 · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:16

Freefaller said:
Hajj is a pilgrimage - it is one of the 5 pillars of Islam that a Muslim must do at least once (IIRC), so irrespective of how many mosques they build, it will still be THE holy place to visit and do your pilgrimage.

So I don't get your point or were you trying to possibly make a slightly offensive anti Islam post?

Maybe they should have a re-think then? 700+ people dying just for the sake of it seems rather absurd, wouldn't you agree?

But do yourself a favour and get off your high horse, was neither offensive or anti-Islam. It was critical. 700 people have just died, during a 'peaceful' event... if we can't criticise that then we might as well all give up.

Arazi · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:25

The Saudi gov are blaming the pilgrim's for the crush, also the other day when i first heard it was the Hajj, the first thing i thought of was how many are going to be killed in a crush, again.

scorza · 24 Sep 2015 at 14:26

RIP to the victims

Freefaller · 24 Sep 2015 at 15:22

balky12 said:
Maybe they should have a re-think then? 700+ people dying just for the sake of it seems rather absurd, wouldn't you agree?

But do yourself a favour and get off your high horse, was neither offensive or anti-Islam. It was critical. 700 people have just died, during a 'peaceful' event... if we can't criticise that then we might as well all give up.

In response I suggest you wind your neck in too - seems only fair no considering your rather pithy reproach? Or do you want to apologise for completely overreacting and being unnecessarily aggressive towards me?

Also, there is no problem with criticising the lack of pedestrian control, H&S, and generally logistical issues at Mecca - what isn't acceptable is having a pop at people's beliefs in this thread, and certainly not when hundreds of people have died. Let's have a little bit of humanity here.

Your roll eyes and clearly mocking comment of "Allah's will" and clearly making a derisory comment towards the 700+ people being "better off" is clearly aggressive comment.

Delvis · 24 Sep 2015 at 15:37

dowie said:
I didn't say it had got anything to do with safety... it is completely removed from safety - it is sticking your head in the sand... oh they're with god now/its god's will etc..

Must have misread then obviously

the Saudi's chuck in a few token safety measures but are also keen to reassure people not to worry as if you die during the Hajj you're assured entry to heaven...

dowie · 24 Sep 2015 at 15:42

Delvis said:
Must have misread then obviously

yes you indeed have, you're confusing a comment about a phrase and a comment about the incident - context/reading comprehension is important

balky12 · 24 Sep 2015 at 15:44

Freefaller said:
In response I suggest you wind your neck in too - seems only fair no considering your rather pithy reproach? Or do you want to apologise for completely overreacting and being unnecessarily aggressive towards me?

Also, there is no problem with criticising the lack of pedestrian control, H&S, and generally logistical issues at Mecca - what isn't acceptable is having a pop at people's beliefs in this thread, and certainly not when hundreds of people have died. Let's have a little bit of humanity here.

Your roll eyes and clearly mocking comment of "Allah's will" and clearly making a derisory comment towards the 700+ people being "better off" is clearly aggressive comment.

If you're that hurt by an off the cuff 'get off you're high horse' then apologies. But it's far from aggressive.

Yes maybe I am mocking 'Allah's will' but what is exactly what these people will brush it off as. Can't you see how ludicrous that is? So then nothing will be done to prevent this in future. No changes will be made. All because it's 'Allah's will'.

This was a peaceful event yet 700+ people died. That highlights the lack of empathy and value of life these people have. It's not an inconsiderate number..

People then expect Europe to throw open their arms to these type of characters.

I recon more people use London Underground each day... not directly comparable but the London Underground manages just fine without hundreds of crushed passengers.