Alex Salmond: A second Scottish referendum is inevitible

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 18:26

Five.Stars said:
Great, lets do as you suggest. But in doing so, you will have to give the same vote to all Scottish expatriates (including some 800,000 living in England I believe) and those serving abroad in her majesty's armed forces with no fixed abode on Scottish soil.

Still fancy your chances? Or should we just limit it to people with an intent to vote yes?

As I stated earlier, a crackpot!!!

Sounds OK to me. As long as we remove the vote from the 500,000 English and 200,000 EU nationals living in Scotland.

Five.Stars said:
So which is it, a very real possibility, or is that perhaps pretty optimistic (read absolutely zero % chance)?

As far as your line about scaring pensioners - rather be on that side of the argument than the side wishing them dead.

It all depends on when the EU referendum is.

We don't wish them dead. But time is not on their side.

Five.Stars · 24 Sep 2015 at 18:35

lovelyhead said:
It all depends on when the EU referendum is.

We don't wish them dead. But time is not on their side.

Aw well, that's ok then! How inconsiderate of the them to not die before September last year eh!

So you don't wish them dead, you just hope they are no longer with us prior to the next referendum?

Five.Stars · 24 Sep 2015 at 18:39

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 18:51

Five.Stars said:

Just like a unionist post on here.

TheGamingGeneral · 24 Sep 2015 at 18:54

It's all bluff and bluster

. Indyref2.0 sabre ratling is the SNP shoring up support in next years elections.

The commitment it's self is totally vague. If certain things (that we don't know yet) happen, at some point in the future, we may have another referendum but only if the polls (that before september 2014 where unionist lies) say we might win.

Ayee....

Had she not put some sort of nod to keep the faithful happy what would the implications for the SNP be? Cybernat HQ implosion aside, I would have thought many of those who joined in the aftermath of the last year would feel betrayed.

I cannot fault Nicola Sturgeon's tactic, if I was her, I would do exactly the same thing.

scorza · 24 Sep 2015 at 19:05

Farage telling it like it is: UKIP leader Nigel Farage tells the people of Scotland: ‘You’ve not suffered like Wisbech or Boston’ when it comes to immigration

Five.Stars · 24 Sep 2015 at 19:08

lovelyhead said:
Just like a unionist post on here.

Would you care to highlight anything written that was inaccurate?

Bluntwrapped · 24 Sep 2015 at 19:30

Last post in this thread as I don't see much point in posting here but there seems to be a lot of generalising. Many you "lot" are mental one way or the other type comments, it's a bit sad it's all so black and white to some. Life unfortunately isn't that simple.

Elixir · 24 Sep 2015 at 19:40

lovelyhead said:
Sounds OK to me. As long as we remove the vote from the 500,000 English and 200,000 EU nationals living in Scotland.

Ridiculous. Will 'Scotland for the Scottish' be your slogan when you're in power?

Why should people legally resident in Scotland not have a vote in the future of their home? (This is rhetorical, I know it's because you're aware that well-traveled and well-educated people won't subscribe to your xenophobic cult)

Macro · 24 Sep 2015 at 20:02

lovelyhead said:
No I deliberately left them out because in a UK wide referendum on Scottish Independence, what England wanted, England would get. It wouldn't matter which way the other member states voted, it would be the English voters that would decide the outcome. That is the reason a UK wide referendum on Scottish independence would not work.

Oh look - it's the English thing again. Poor effort to try to separate Wales and NI away from the rest of the UK in your ongoing attempt to paint a Scotland vs England thing. Incredible arrogance and insulting to dismiss the entire populations of Wales and Northern Ireland as irrelevant to you and the future of the UK, although I suppose that's what we come to expect from a Scottish Nationalist.

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 21:15

Five.Stars said:
Would you care to highlight anything written that was inaccurate?

Well his letter was fine (albeit his own personal opinion) up until the paragraph starting "The nationalist claim we voted no after being misled into believing more devolution was on offer than was actually on offer".

At that point he kind of loses the plot. The Scottish people were promised home rule. That is a fact.

You can argue that it was only Gordon Brown who said it when he had no right to, but the fact is it was promised. Many Scots, older Scots, look up to Gordon Brown as some sort of Scottish hero so are happy to believe what he says. Low and behold, the majority of NO voters were the elderly.

You can argue about how much Brown's lie actually changed the vote but to deny that it had no effect would be wrong.

Then he goes on to say that it wouldn't be possible to hold a second referendum to rejoin the UK. This is untrue as well. If people wanted to rejoin the UK they could vote for a party that offered a manifesto promise to hold another referendum and hope they win a majority in the Scottish parliament.

It just comes across as another unionist scared by the fact that on a daily basis the YES side grows stronger and there is no sign of us getting back in our box like so many of you would like.

TwsT · 24 Sep 2015 at 21:37

Let's play Schrödinger's nationalist. If the unionists leave the thread is it dead?

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 21:39

TwsT said:
Let's play Schrödinger's nationalist. If the unionists leave the thread is it dead?

It's a pity I can't add you to my ignore list.

Macro · 24 Sep 2015 at 21:45

lovelyhead said:
It's a pity I can't add you to my ignore list.

Odd... you seem to have managed to do just that to the entire populations of Wales and Northern Ireland...

[FnG]magnolia · 24 Sep 2015 at 22:00

TwsT said:
Let's play Schrödinger's nationalist. If the unionists leave the thread is it dead?

Lol, I've just checked the contributions and the OP has a quarter of all the posts in this thread

Maybe if he and his cronies had spent as much time and effort convincing the people of Scotland that independence was not a terrible idea as he has in moaning about the outcome after the event, there may have been a different result.

Still, that's it for a generation eh?

The_Abyss · 24 Sep 2015 at 22:36

lovelyhead said:
The end of 2016 is pretty optimistic. 2017 would be the year most likely. If Scotland votes to stay and England votes leave in the EU referendum then a new independence referendum would have to happen pretty quickly afterwards. The shorter the campaign the better as well. Gives the unionists less time to scare the pensioners.

Why do you continually bash pensioners just because they don't vote the same way you'd like to? They've lived through more, have greater experience, and have contributed more to Scotland than those younger than them.

Wishing them and their votes to die so you get what you want is really quite offensive, and sets a precedent to how other demographics might expect to be treated in an independent Scotland.

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 22:53

The_Abyss said:
Why do you continually bash pensioners just because they don't vote the same way you'd like to?

Because they are stopping the younger generations from getting what a majority of them want.

I am sure it isn't malicious on their part but the end result is the same. It is understandable as older people are more easily mislead and taken advantage of. They also don't have the full range of information available to them unlike younger generations. They tend to form all of their views from what the BBC and the Daily Record tells them. Kudos to the 27% of them that saw through the fear mongering and voted to give the young a better chance in life.

The_Abyss · 24 Sep 2015 at 23:08

lovelyhead said:
Because they are stopping the younger generations from getting what a majority of them want.

I am sure it isn't malicious on their part but the end result is the same. It is understandable as older people are more easily mislead and taken advantage of.

Breathtaking. Social marginalisation akin to social cleansing. Their voice isn't relevant because someone else wants something different?

Your attitude towards older people is both belittling and disgusting. And is a well trodden path taken by historic nationalist movements. Utterly repulsive.

lovelyhead · 24 Sep 2015 at 23:14

The_Abyss said:
Breathtaking. Social marginalisation akin to social cleansing. Their voice isn't relevant because someone else wants something different?

Your attitude towards older people is both belittling and disgusting. And is a well trodden path taken by historic nationalist movements. Utterly repulsive.

Social cleansing? Calm your ham son.

I am not wishing any harm whatsoever on the older generation. I am simply stating that time is on our side. We can wait. The boomer generation and older have, for the most part, had it easy in life. Cheap houses and gold plated final salary pensions. The younger generations know that they will not be getting the same opportunities in life so vote for a chance to govern ourselves with a hope for something better than Westminster can offer.

It isn't surprising to learn that the older generations can be easily manipulated by lies regarding the safety of their pensions etc. That is why most of them voted NO. They voted NO for short term selfish reasons because lets be honest a lot of them won't be around to see any long term consequences of remaining under Westminster rule.

The_Abyss · 24 Sep 2015 at 23:22

lovelyhead said:
Social cleansing? Calm your ham son.

I am not wishing any harm whatsoever on the older generation. I am simply stating that time is on our side. We can wait.

Then wait. And let the younger generations grow in experience too.

Generalising older people as more easily mislead and easier to take advantage of is abhorent and discriminatory. You should be ashamed.