Bloody immigrants not respecting the law

Moses said:
Breaking news = we've withdrawn from the prisons deal with Saudi :D.
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Interesting development, even simply for the UK political machinations - bit of a power struggle within the government, this issue. Cameron and Hammond have climbed down on their stance, Gove wins the debate, and the Tories fall in line with Corbyn's Labour position.
 
bayo000 said:
I guess you could read it like that. My point is if people accept responsibility for their action this wouldn't have even made the news.

Nobody knows he'll die, yes it's a fair assumption but he may well survive it. Plus if you read my earlier post I myself said that due to his age it would be kind if they change the sentence to extra year in prison instead.
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Accepting responsibility is a bit extreme when it comes with a likelihood of death or near-death.

Unjust laws should be opposed, wherever they are found. Sometimes individual issues spark that opposition, whilst others go unnoticed, but that doesn't mean we ignore them.
 
6 Bottles of wine in his boot in Saudi Arabia, he was going to get lashed one way or another.
 
Dis86 said:
I can't believe how many people on here are ok with torture and corporal, potentially capital punishment!
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Most of us aren't supporting it.

However he was there long enough to know the law, long enough to be aware of what happened and thus had no excuse for not following the law.

I don't agree with corporal and capital punishment, however I also strongly believe that you're very stupid if you go into a country, break a well known and well publicised law and then complain about it (I tend to have zero sympathy for most of the people caught smuggling drugs into places with the death penalty for it).

It's not like he arrived in the country yesterday and got caught.
 
Sho said:
He knew the rules. Now hes going to learn it the hard way.

Again, no sympathy from me.
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A little hardline from someone whose signature says 'In the name of Allah the merciful'. Where is the mercy? Where is the compassion?

I am fully in agreement with the general sentiment; he was stupid, he knew the score and he was caught. We in this country, however, always take into account the offender's situation when deciding punishment. This I think is correct.

I have no qualms with his prison sentence, and I also agree that each country makes its own laws. That doesn't stop me disagreeing with giving hundreds of lashes to an OAP of advanced age. Extra prison time, if that is their wish, but lashing? A step too far. Still, at least they didn't crucify and/or behead him by the roadside like so many Africans, Pakistanis or natives I suppose.
 
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Having worked in Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia for 3 months I have first hand knowledge of their culture, laws, and way of life. As a European/Westerner I would never set foot there ever again. Nearly everything we do or take for granted over here is some kind of crime or insult to Islam and there's visible racism to both Pakistani/Bangladeshi and Oriental Asians (mostly Filipinos). I fared slightly better as a White man in the airport customs/official areas, but I was still met with untold strange glares wherever I went by the locals.

Weirdly they all knock off for the weekend on a Thursday evening and head to Bahrain to drink Alcohol and meet up with Russian prostitutes (there is bloody loads). The country is backward and hypocritical, stuck in the stone ages in terms of law, but they are still hugely influenced by Western culture in a lot of ways.

I was certainly glad when I touched back down at Heathrow. How anyone can live there and risk having wine bottles in a car in that country needs their head testing!
 
Werewolf said:
Most of us aren't supporting it.

However he was there long enough to know the law, long enough to be aware of what happened and thus had no excuse for not following the law.

I don't agree with corporal and capital punishment, however I also strongly believe that you're very stupid if you go into a country, break a well known and well publicised law and then complain about it (I tend to have zero sympathy for most of the people caught smuggling drugs into places with the death penalty for it).

It's not like he arrived in the country yesterday and got caught.
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But I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished. He should. As you and others have pointed out he's been there long enough to know the laws.

I just can't believe that we have people here saying they have no sympathy for someone who hasn't hurt anyone and is going to suffer a violent, degrading and potentially fatal punishment!

Also loving the hypocrisy from sho. Good job man, good job!
 
Dis86 said:
I just can't believe that we have people here saying they have no sympathy for someone who hasn't hurt anyone and is going to suffer a violent, degrading and potentially fatal punishment!
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That's because the 'HURR DURR ITS THE LAW' brigade are either simple-minded or haven't bothered to spare a few thoughts on what their words mean.

Perhaps if they were forced to watch this old dude getting lashed to death then they might reconsider their opinion.
 
Sunbed said:
That's because the 'HURR DURR ITS THE LAW' brigade are either simple-minded or haven't bothered to spare a few thoughts on what their words mean.

Perhaps if they were forced to watch this old dude getting lashed to death then they might reconsider their opinion.
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I don't think anyone wants it to happen, but fact is we don't have jurisdiction.

OK, the government can make appeals etc but ultimately it's not our business. If you're in another country you are subject to their laws. Even if you don't like them. And even if everyone in your home country doesn't like them.
 
Jim99 said:
OK, the government can make appeals etc but ultimately it's not our business. If you're in another country you are subject to their laws. Even if you don't like them. And even if everyone in your home country doesn't like them.
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When human rights abuses occur it should be our business. It should be our duty to stand up for what we believe and use our influence to persuade other governments to change their laws.

Obviously it's easier said than done, but I don't see how people can be content with this 'well it's none of our business... it's their laws' attitude.
 
Sunbed said:
When human rights abuses occur it should be our business. It should be our duty to stand up for what we believe and use our influence to persuade other governments to change their laws.

Obviously it's easier said than done, but I don't see how people can be content with this 'well it's none of our business... it's their laws' attitude.
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I think the difficult part is the barging in saying that they're abusing human rights and need to stop.

As much as in the UK it's considered barbaric / HR abuse, it isn't in other countries. And launching in there with a massive dose of orientalism will neither make us many friends nor achieve much.

I think sometimes it's easy to misinterpret people being content, when actually they're of the opinion that it needs to be dealt with slowly and subtly.
 
Sunbed said:
That's because the 'HURR DURR ITS THE LAW' brigade are either simple-minded or haven't bothered to spare a few thoughts on what their words mean.

Perhaps if they were forced to watch this old dude getting lashed to death then they might reconsider their opinion.
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No, not with me.

He did a crime, he is doing the time.
 
One More Solo said:
Assuming the same sentence would be dished out to a Saudi national, it's hard to say it's unjust even if it is disproportionate.
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LOL - depends on the rank/connections of said local - plenty of the Saudi upper class drink alcohol as do a large portion of ex-pats, a blind eye is turned to some extent when it is done behind closed doors - this guy either upset someone or got very very unlucky

It does also point to the wider issue of a proportion of the ex-pat community who don't exactly assimilate with the locals and their culture. I think this is an unavoidable trait to a large extent and not one that is unique to migrants to the UK. Where there are large ex-pat communities, it just facilitates this.

Is it fair to say then that if you're not willing to live by the standards of another country then you should be prepared for what comes your way?
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not really - not all cultures/legal systems are equal - it isn't so much that the ex-pats don't 'assimilate', they're not immigrants hoping to become a part of the country they're there temporarily for work and don't have any rights to permanent residence. The Saudis would much prefer that they did remain segregated in compounds for the most part.

The other thing about immigration is that it impacts the native culture too - if expats were immigrants in the Gulf and democracy was in place then in plenty of places they'd actually outnumber the locals and you could see some real improvement in human rights and quality of life for all people living there. Unfortunately that isn't the case, they're temporary workers not immigrants and the countries concerned aren't democracies - they're monarchies ruled by people with rather backwards beliefs.
 
Jim99 said:
I don't think anyone wants it to happen, but fact is we don't have jurisdiction.

OK, the government can make appeals etc but ultimately it's not our business. If you're in another country you are subject to their laws. Even if you don't like them. And even if everyone in your home country doesn't like them.
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it is their business as it is one of our citizens - they absolutely do get involved if something like torture or the death penalty is on the cards.... even British terrorists being held by the US had high ranking politicians and foreign office officials putting pressure on for their release
 
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