Bloody immigrants not respecting the law

Jim99 · 13 Oct 2015 at 14:45

dowie said:
it is their business as it is one of our citizens - they absolutely do get involved if something like torture or the death penalty is on the cards.... even British terrorists being held by the US had high ranking politicians and foreign office officials putting pressure on for their release

I don't disagree that they'll get involved - my point is that often in these cases people act like there's some sort of higher power, or that because of orientalism our law should prevail, not theirs.

It's much like someone being put on trial in the UK - the family might make appeals, put pressure on, etc, but ultimately it's not their business.

Sunbed · 13 Oct 2015 at 14:50

Jim99 said:
I think sometimes it's easy to misinterpret people being content, when actually they're of the opinion that it needs to be dealt with slowly and subtly.

eatcustard said:
He did a crime, he is doing the time.

^ Sounds pretty content to me

dowie · 13 Oct 2015 at 14:55

SouthEastBlue said:
Weirdly they all knock off for the weekend on a Thursday evening and head to Bahrain to drink Alcohol and meet up with Russian prostitutes (there is bloody loads). The country is backward and hypocritical, stuck in the stone ages in terms of law, but they are still hugely influenced by Western culture in a lot of ways.

Very much so, when I was serving in Iraq some friends of mine ended up in a situation where they crossed the border briefly from Iraq to Saudi, on the way back they stopped at an official border checkpoint and had a chat with the Saudi border guards/customs guys... apparently the border guards had plenty of alcohol - it seems that though they were supposed to confiscate it from people and presumably arrest them or take a bribe they also made use of plenty of it themselves.

In Iraq the Christian population could drink alcohol, Basrah used to be considered a bit of a party town prior to the invasion by people from Kuwait.

In Kuwait I remember speaking to one local who commented that British and Americans are so lucky that we can go drinking and meet girls etc... whenever we want.

The whole region is partly ****ed thanks to certain people in power heavily promoting and following a full retard version of Islam.

dowie · 13 Oct 2015 at 14:56

Jim99 said:
I don't disagree that they'll get involved - my point is that often in these cases people act like there's some sort of higher power, or that because of orientalism our law should prevail, not theirs.

nothing to do with our law prevailing, nothing to do with our law even - just they don't want their obviously backwards punishment being carried out - if he was serving a few months in jail you'd not even hear of the case

It's much like someone being put on trial in the UK - the family might make appeals, put pressure on, etc, but ultimately it's not their business.

it is nothing like being put on trial in the UK - it is the ridiculous punishment that is the issue here

Hitman_Leon · 13 Oct 2015 at 14:56

SciNeT said:
Religion of peace.

Because the population are terrified of the law having stupidly severe punishments it prevents some crime from happening in the first place, not that a lot of the laws and punishments make any sense to us outsiders, we don't live in the dark ages.

Anyone even thinking of doing anything like this in that country really needs locking up for their own safety.

Sho · 13 Oct 2015 at 15:09

Rainmaker said:
A little hardline from someone whose signature says 'In the name of Allah the merciful'. Where is the mercy? Where is the compassion?

I am fully in agreement with the general sentiment; he was stupid, he knew the score and he was caught. We in this country, however, always take into account the offender's situation when deciding punishment. This I think is correct.

I have no qualms with his prison sentence, and I also agree that each country makes its own laws. That doesn't stop me disagreeing with giving hundreds of lashes to an OAP of advanced age. Extra prison time, if that is their wish, but lashing? A step too far. Still, at least they didn't crucify and/or behead him by the roadside like so many Africans, Pakistanis or natives I suppose.

What's my sig got to do with anything about this unfortunate person.
As I said, the guy knew the law. And still decided to break the law in a country where he knew it could be devastating. So he deserves the punishment. So, no sympathy what's so ever.

dowie · 13 Oct 2015 at 15:14

Sho said:
What's my sig got to do with anything about this unfortunate person.
As I said, the guy knew the law. And still decided to break the law in a country where he knew it could be devastating. So he deserves the punishment. So, no sympathy what's so ever.

You don't think that some laws or punishments are a bit silly or even unfair perhaps?

I mean if we made Islam illegal over here and decided to whip anyone found with a Koran would you accept that, well, people know the law and if they chose to break it they deserve the punishment?

MookJong · 13 Oct 2015 at 15:22

This is one of the most hilarious threads ever.

Have some of you just painted yourself into a "The law is the law" corner and now can't get out of it for fear your liberal side might go on show?

SouthEastBlue · 13 Oct 2015 at 15:22

The fact natives will drink alcohol in secret or over the border in a neighboring country just makes their heavy handed barbaric approach to punishing an aged law breaker in such a manner ridiculous.

I mean this is a country where you can jump red lights in your car, do donuts and street race weaving in between traffic endangering lives, but can't have a glass of wine.

Like I said, the country and all that part of the world is backwards and lacks any compassion. They may have money, super cars, and huge expensive buildings but they are extremely inhumane.

nine_tails · 13 Oct 2015 at 15:27

Nothing can make me want to move into a environment as hostile as Saudi.
NOPEing the *** out.

One More Solo · 13 Oct 2015 at 15:30

SouthEastBlue said:
The fact natives will drink alcohol in secret or over the border in a neighboring country just makes their heavy handed barbaric approach to punishing an aged law breaker in such a manner ridiculous.

I mean this is a country where you can jump red lights in your car, do donuts and street race weaving in between traffic endangering lives, but can't have a glass of wine.

Like I said, the country and all that part of the world is backwards and lacks any compassion. They may have money, super cars, and huge expensive buildings but they are extremely inhumane.

I agree Saudi is a hugely hypocritical place but this is besides the point. Just because you don't believe a country's laws are fair does not give you the right to break them. Equally, there is no objective measure to say our laws are better than their laws. Naturally we believe they are because they are the foundation of our society, but we don't have the right to impose them on others.

SouthEastBlue · 13 Oct 2015 at 15:48

It's not the stupid hypocritical Saudi law that is the issue, it's their overly harsh and disgusting forms of punishment used. Amputation of limbs, lashings and beheading all belong in the dark ages.

When one can follow through such punishment without being touched emotionally then I want nothing to do with them, or anyone attached to that way of life or thinking. Torturing people for crimes that hurt nobody? Use your bloody common sense it's ridiculous.

Prison sentence is more than enough.

atpbx · 13 Oct 2015 at 16:05

He should suffer the full extent of what ever the local authorities see fit as punishment.

Its not as if everyone on the planet isnt aware that that place had stone age beliefs and customs.

SouthEastBlue · 13 Oct 2015 at 16:08

As long as they continue to carry out these punishments they will never fully integrate into the civilised world, and sitting by and agreeing with it will never see it changed.

Seriously don't understand some people.

Aldav · 13 Oct 2015 at 16:10

SouthEastBlue said:
It's not the stupid hypocritical Saudi law that is the issue, it's their overly harsh and disgusting forms of punishment used. Amputation of limbs, lashings and beheading all belong in the dark ages.

When one can follow through such punishment without being touched emotionally then I want nothing to do with them, or anyone attached to that way of life or thinking. Torturing people for crimes that hurt nobody? Use your bloody common sense it's ridiculous.

Prison sentence is more than enough.

Agreed. Which is why, personally, I either wouldn't go to Saudi in the first place, or if I did I'd be extremely careful not to break such notorious laws.

While I regard such laws as daft, and such punishment as barbaric, I think we all have to take some responsibility for our actions, and especially when it comes to deliberately and knowingly breaking laws.

As for us exerting pressure on the Saudi government, my view is that there are ways of approaching that. If we get on our moral high horse and lecture them out how barbaric they are, it will not only not work but just might be counter-productive and eliminate any chance of clemency, and the lashes being commuted. After all, nobody likes being condescended to, and I'd bet the Saudi government wouldn't respond well, any more than anyone else would.

I think the best chance of a result is a careful, diplomatic representation, not either a patronising or chest-thumping hissy-fit. Getting on our moral high horse might make us feel good about ourselves, but I can't see it making any positive difference to either the outcome in this specific case, or the wider situation of Saudi ideas of justice.

Apart from anything else, sermonising about how "superior" our values are over these "barbarians" rather carries overtones of imperialist Crusading Christians, and that's not a tone that's likely to go down well anywhere, and especially not in that part of the world.

Aldav · 13 Oct 2015 at 16:13

NEWSFLASH - According to BBC reports, there is, and never was, "any chance" that the 360 lashes would be carried out, but that "his release papers have been held up".

SouthEastBlue · 13 Oct 2015 at 16:19

If that is true then common sense has prevailed.

Bunka · 13 Oct 2015 at 16:36

Mak3R said:
360 lashes? Is that given all at once? Surely there'd be no skin left on you...

It's likely to cause much more damage than just to his skin.

dowie · 13 Oct 2015 at 16:52

One More Solo said:
I agree Saudi is a hugely hypocritical place but this is besides the point. Just because you don't believe a country's laws are fair does not give you the right to break them. Equally, there is no objective measure to say our laws are better than their laws. Naturally we believe they are because they are the foundation of our society, but we don't have the right to impose them on others.

well there kind of is - we don't have the death penalty as a punishment for a start... in fact there are plenty of objective measures of a society's laws too, freedom indices etc..

but this isn't really about the law itself it is about the punishment for breaking it - we can say that banning alcohol is silly but that wouldn't be a reason for diplomats to get involved and news media to cover the story - it is the fact that giving someone in their 70s lashes would be completely inhumane that has generated the main objection to this

the fact they're also a bunch of hypocrites re: banning alcohol is more of a side issue

RDM · 13 Oct 2015 at 17:06

~Divine~Wind~ said:
Whilst yes it's sad for the family that the lashes will probably kill him they need to understand that it's of his own doing,

It seems that empathy and compassion are in short supply on OCUK today...