Alex Salmond: A second Scottish referendum is inevitible

[Elixir]

You keep going back to whether what she did was legal or not. We are not questioning the legality, we are questioning the morality. She took advantage of poor and vulnerable people for her own financial gain.

Isn't that one of the main things the SNP hate about the Tories, socialism vs capitalism and all that? If a Tory did it you'd be all over them, but you're too far gone to be aware of your own bias.

 

[FishFluff]

But any way you look at it, the older generation voted self-servingly against the wishes of the younger generations (16 - 55) who by and large wanted Independence. Of course that is their prerogative.

Another way of looking at it is that young people are impressionable and thick as **** and therefore shouldn't be allowed to make any serious life choices until they're at least 30.

 

[lovelyhead]

You keep going back to whether what she did was legal or not. We are not questioning the legality, we are questioning the morality. She took advantage of poor and vulnerable people for her own financial gain.

Isn't that one of the main things the SNP hate about the Tories, socialism vs capitalism and all that? If a Tory did it you'd be all over them, but you're too far gone to be aware of your own bias.

You are completely missing the completely obvious point I am making! Whether or not what she did was morally wrong or not is by the by.

It is the fact that the MSM are quite happy to make things up in order to demonize her. Older people probably don't have access to the truth in this circumstance as the only way to read the truth is by going online.

It was the same with the referendum. Older people without internet access were only getting the unionist side of the story.

That is the point I am making.

Another way of looking at it is that young people are impressionable and thick as **** and therefore shouldn't be allowed to make any serious life choices until they're at least 30.

The flip side of that ridiculous coin is people over the age of 70 shouldn't be allowed to vote because a lot of them are starting to go senile /s

 

[Elixir]

You are completely missing the completely obvious point I am making! Whether or not what she did was morally wrong or not is by the by.

It is the fact that the MSM are quite happy to make things up in order to demonize her. Older people probably don't have access to the truth in this circumstance as the only way to read the truth is by going online.

It was the same with the referendum. Older people without internet access were only getting the unionist side of the story.

That is the point I am making.

However you have tried to defend her actions in this thread despite there being substantial evidence and suggestion of her morally corrupt dealings from non-"unionist" sources. Are you just openly admitting to your blind bias now?

 

[lovelyhead]

However you have tried to defend her actions in this thread despite there being substantial evidence and suggestion of her morally corrupt dealings from non-"unionist" sources. Are you just openly admitting to your blind bias now?

I haven't defended her actions. I have only stated facts such as she isn't even being investigated by the police. You also seem to be missing the rather obvious point that I am making and are not willing to budge one iota from your position even though I have provided evidence of actual lies in the press.

 

[Golf1.6]

they rigged the elections and still failed.

the lowered the voting age to 16, young people tend to be more nationalistic so that upped the exit votes.

they barred expats from voting so scots living i england counldnt vote and those people are likely to vote to remain in the union.

despite fuding these, they still lost, i think had they left these chnges alone they would have lost 40:60

 

[xs2man]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34533955

Nicola Sturgeon is to use her opening speech at the SNP conference to call on people who rejected independence in the referendum to vote for her party.

But she will say it would be wrong to hold an early re-run of the independence referendum without "strong evidence" that a significant number of No voters had changed their minds.

Can't see her sticking to that. I mean, how would she gather this "strong evidence". I would suggest that this means there would be no second referendum anytime soon as the polls don't suggest significant difference of opinion thus far. Good.

Anyway, it is from the BBC / MSM so no doubt it's a complete fabrication, and is not what she said at all.

 

[lovelyhead]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34533955



Can't see her sticking to that. I mean, how would she gather this "strong evidence". I would suggest that this means there would be no second referendum anytime soon as the polls don't suggest significant difference of opinion thus far. Good.

Anyway, it is from the BBC / MSM so no doubt it's a complete fabrication, and is not what she said at all.

This is what I've been saying from the start. It is up to the people to decide when the next referendum will be. I think the next trigger for people to swing in favour of independence might be the EU referendum. If Scotland vote to stay in and England votes to leave that might do it.

 

[xs2man]

That in itself does not equal enough support for another referendum though. Membership of the European Union is not equal to membership of the United Kingdom. Your assumption is that it's the same people wanting independence that want to stay in the EU. I don't think that is true, at all. And wanting to stay in the EU has virtually nothing to do with wanting to leave the UK.

It may be enough to trigger a flurry of polls, but not enough to trigger another referendum. Not unless said polls OVERWHELMINGLY show a MASSIVE swing towards independence. And not just the minor swing that you appear to get right behind, which can realistically be put down to statistical error really.

 

[lovelyhead]

That in itself does not equal enough support for another referendum though. Membership of the European Union is not equal to membership of the United Kingdom. Your assumption is that it's the same people wanting independence that want to stay in the EU. I don't think that is true, at all. And wanting to stay in the EU has virtually nothing to do with wanting to leave the UK.

It may be enough to trigger a flurry of polls, but not enough to trigger another referendum. Not unless said polls OVERWHELMINGLY show a MASSIVE swing towards independence. And not just the minor swing that you appear to get right behind, which can realistically be put down to statistical error really.

That's like, totally your opinion man!

Assuming England votes to leave and Scotland votes to stay, then the only way Scotland would get to stay in the EU would be through another Independence referendum. Enough people might think that Independence is the way to go in that situation.

Another possible thing that could happen over a few years is that the people of Scotland see that the powers that we were promised are not coming. It is possible that could lead to a creeping up of support for another referendum.

I don't know for sure what will happen and neither do you so it is all just speculation.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

What do you mean, if 'Scotland votes to stay'..? It will be the UK voting, not its constituent parts. And what if some regions in Scotland vote to leave, do they get to remain in the UK?

As usual, poorly thought out logic.

 

[lovelyhead]

What do you mean, if 'Scotland votes to stay'..? It will be the UK voting, not its constituent parts. And what if some regions in Scotland vote to leave, do they get to remain in the UK?

As usual, poorly thought out logic.

It will be very easy to break down the vote into Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. If you think that won't be done you are naive.

If a majority of people in Scotland vote to stay in the EU but the rest of the UK votes to leave, of course this is going to set the independence referendum wheels in motion again.

Of course the whole UK may vote to stay or even leave so the issue may never arise.

But to think that the SNP won't push for another referendum, if there is evidence to show the people of Scotland would support one if the UK was divided on the EU issue, is laughable!

What's the worst that could happen in that situation. Big bad "I definitley won't comment on whether or not I put my todger in a dead pig's head" Cameron says no you can't have another referendum and plus we are forcing you out of the EU against your will.

That will go down really well won't it!

Of course it is all speculation.

 

[Elixir]

It will be very easy to break down the vote into Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

And further. When does this "they think slightly different to us" thing stop? When the People's Republic of Dundee gets it's sovereignty?

 

[lovelyhead]

Well this is interesting although not exactly surprising! Seems Corbyn or the Michelle Thomson story has had no effect on the SNP's popularity. The Unionists must be beeling the amount of effort they have been putting in lately!

http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/crucial-yougov-poll-suggests-corbyn-and.html

 

[Schlong&Stable]

It will be very easy to break down the vote into Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. If you think that won't be done you are naive.

If a majority of people in Scotland vote to stay in the EU but the rest of the UK votes to leave, of course this is going to set the independence referendum wheels in motion again.

Of course the whole UK may vote to stay or even leave so the issue may never arise.

But to think that the SNP won't push for another referendum, if there is evidence to show the people of Scotland would support one if the UK was divided on the EU issue, is laughable!

What's the worst that could happen in that situation. Big bad "I definitley won't comment on whether or not I put my todger in a dead pig's head" Cameron says no you can't have another referendum and plus we are forcing you out of the EU against your will.

That will go down really well won't it!

Of course it is all speculation.

What if 45% of Scots want to leave the EU and 55% want to stay in, then a few years later that figure creeps up to 49/51. I assume there would be another referendum, right?

 

[lovelyhead]

What if 45% of Scots want to leave the EU and 55% want to stay in, then a few years later that figure creeps up to 49/51. I assume there would be another referendum, right?

Democracy!

 

[grumpysculler]

I am fully aware of her solicitor being struck off. The police are not even investigating her.

She is not personally being investigated however Police Scotland have announced that they are investigating the transactions that she was involved in as being mortgage fraud. Where that leads, nobody knows.

That Wings article is only about exposing the lies the MSM have been pedaling regarding the amounts paid and the dates of the transactions.

Are you saying that the Law Society Of Scotland have got these numbers wrong? I guess Mr Hales has an appeal ready to go based on the Wings article!

You have also proved that some people are not even prepared to read the other side of the story. Yet I am the zealot!

You mean the article that I already said I read? Wings is a cesspit, read mostly by those incapable of independent thought. It rarely (ever?) has anything of journalistic value and is almost certainly worse than the MSM. In both cases, you get a better picture if you go digging yourself (which I have done, and you seem incapable of).

 

[grumpysculler]

Assuming England votes to leave and Scotland votes to stay, then the only way Scotland would get to stay in the EU would be through another Independence referendum.

But the EU have already said that a vote for independence would see us leave the EU. We could rejoin, but that's a long way from staying in (particularly in view of the UK opt-outs).

The SNP like to say that they couldn't ask and only Westminster could, but the reality is that they did ask and got given an answer they didn't like. The exchange of letters is published on the Scottish government website, but you won't find the SNP advertising them.

In any case, if the UK left the EU then it seems pretty clear that the lesser evil would be for Scotland to go too. Having Scotland in and rUK out would be pretty disastrous economically.

 

[platypus]

But the EU have already said that a vote for independence would see us leave the EU. We could rejoin, but that's a long way from staying in (particularly in view of the UK opt-outs).

The SNP like to say that they couldn't ask and only Westminster could, but the reality is that they did ask and got given an answer they didn't like. The exchange of letters is published on the Scottish government website, but you won't find the SNP advertising them.

In any case, if the UK left the EU then it seems pretty clear that the lesser evil would be for Scotland to go too. Having Scotland in and rUK out would be pretty disastrous economically.

Another thing conveniently swept under the carpet by the SNP spin machine.

I'm still waiting to see a nationalist come out and say that the SNP were wrong with all their pre-election hype, but I guess thats what being in a cult is all about..

 

[lovelyhead]

She is not personally being investigated however Police Scotland have announced that they are investigating the transactions that she was involved in as being mortgage fraud. Where that leads, nobody knows.

Exactly. Innocent until proven guilty. The press don't seem to agree with that though.

Are you saying that the Law Society Of Scotland have got these numbers wrong? I guess Mr Hales has an appeal ready to go based on the Wings article!

If you have read that article then you clearly haven't absorbed it. The article has nothing to do with the Law Society of Scotland.

It is solely about contradictory stories in the Daily Mail, The Sunday Mail and STV. It basically exposes the Daily and Sunday Mail as liars using publicly available information regarding the price houses sold for.

Keep going though. You are giving me a good laugh!

Wings is a cesspit, read mostly by those incapable of independent thought. It rarely (ever?) has anything of journalistic value and is almost certainly worse than the MSM. In both cases, you get a better picture if you go digging yourself (which I have done, and you seem incapable of).

OK feel free to prove your point by taking the Wings article and pointing out the inaccuracies. Either do that or haud yer wheesht!