Thats why I suggested the new tax based on number of properties, and moving the tax relief from buy to let, to build to let
Assumed £19.00 a week cuts expected in benefits to those that need it the most.
- Thread starter ethan
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Thats why I suggested the new tax based on number of properties, and moving the tax relief from buy to let, to build to let
Associate
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Oh right yeah, because people are going to be able to get back into work without a roof over their head, without somewhere to put/wash clothes, without somewhere to get clean, without an address to receive mail. You expect people to better their position without a place to call home? And you do realize their would literally be thousands of people homeless cos of this? People who come from broken homes/through the care system, what are they supposed to do? Leave care and be homeless? Not everyone has a mommy or daddy who got a nice big cheap house when they were more affordable.
I'll tell ya where this is all going - Work camps. You get a place to sleep and 3 meals a day in return for you slaving away all day with NO rights whatsoever. Watch this space. People will willingly walk into them as well as it will be more appealing than walking the streets.
Thinking in 2-dimensions there
Just bumping this thread to remind people that the OP wasn't a scare story, as many in the thread seemed keen to dismiss it as, at all: it's actually happened.
A tearful Tory voter on last night's Question Time gave an emotional speech on how the government has ****ed her and her family after she voted for them in the belief they were the better option.
Tory MP Amber Rudd, on the panel, failed to muster a response.
Even the Daily Mail and Telegraph are reporting it;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-minister-Question-Time-tax-credits-cut.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...wn-on-Question-Time-over-tax-credit-cuts.html
As well as the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/tax-credits-question-time-labour-conservative
And other rags.
From the Telegraph:
A tearful Tory voter on last night's Question Time gave an emotional speech on how the government has ****ed her and her family after she voted for them in the belief they were the better option.
Tory MP Amber Rudd, on the panel, failed to muster a response.
Even the Daily Mail and Telegraph are reporting it;
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-minister-Question-Time-tax-credits-cut.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...wn-on-Question-Time-over-tax-credit-cuts.html
As well as the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/16/tax-credits-question-time-labour-conservative
And other rags.
From the Telegraph:
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Tories in 'Telling lies in run up to election' shocker. My first reaction to this was "serves you right for voting for the Tories" but a better reaction would probably be to hope Labour actually capitalise on stories like this (and there will be more of them over the next few years) and win voters like this guy back.
Country is in a right mess, you've got millions of these people on benefits with Sky/Virgin/BB cars on credit/Littlewood accounts that they have to pay for to keep little Johnny happy on his PS4 that they don't want to give any of that up when they can't actually afford it themselves when other people aren't footing the bill. They're all probably low skilled workers but see low skilled work as beneath them.
Problem is we've created that culture, and now in 2015 everyone of them lives in the instant gratification world of now now now.
Problem is we've created that culture, and now in 2015 everyone of them lives in the instant gratification world of now now now.
Soldato
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The only moaners are the left wing loons.
And who will vote for a Marxist fool, not many
And who will vote for a Marxist fool, not many
tax credits were out of control, they needed to be cut... yes that means people won't get as much free money from the govt but frankly the govt shouldn't be subsidising employers to pay low wages. Cutting tax credits and increasing the minimum wage is a good move - sure some people will lose out but it is still overall a good move for the country
yes we also need to crack down on tax evasion and some forms of avoidance - particularly by international companies
yes we also need to crack down on tax evasion and some forms of avoidance - particularly by international companies
Well, the person complaining on QT voted for the Conservatives...so that's rubbish you're spouting as usual
The problem with just cutting working benefits and upping minimum wage is that not everyone who receives tax credits is on minimum wage. There's a decent bracket of families that seems to be missed by every government and every poll even though they make up a big chunk of the population - working families earning less than the national average.
For example both my wife and I earn more than minimum wage but quite a bit less than the national average. We have one child. At the moment our childcare costs equate to over a quarter of our household income. If we were out of work we'd qualify for free childcare.
If you're going to cut tax credits for working families then sort out the childcare mess at the same time.
For example both my wife and I earn more than minimum wage but quite a bit less than the national average. We have one child. At the moment our childcare costs equate to over a quarter of our household income. If we were out of work we'd qualify for free childcare.
If you're going to cut tax credits for working families then sort out the childcare mess at the same time.
Tory voters fall into the camps if either being ignorant of this, or otherwise thinking people deserve to be poor because of their lack of valuable skills. Like everyone should be a professional.
It's easy enough to say "don't be one of those low earners", but those jobs need to be done by someone. It's ok when you're single to be not earning much: your living costs are pretty low. But when you have a family, it's a strain.
Government, since Labour introduced it, has recognised this through their child tax credits system. People don't magically earn more or gain employable skills when they have children, and yet having children is necessary for the continuation of our country's wealth. Particularly if you don't want to have to import our future labour (those pesky immigrants). And supporting those children's upbringings will benefit their development and give us more productive future adults.
Increasing minimum wage helps the poorest earners, but loses the distinction between those with and without children. And, as you (Cyanide) have said, it means there's a huge number of people who lose out both ways - already above minimum wage, so miss out on the rise, but in the bracket to lose out on tax credits - a sudden cut in income.
The thing is that I probably do earn "average wage" for where I live. I work in insurance, my wife works for a bank. They would be considered "professional" jobs. But the wage is less than the ~£26k national average, as are most jobs away from the South East.
I'd be curious to see national earnings figures with London/SE taken out of the equation as I've got a suspicion that the average will be hugely skewed by them.
(edit - that's not me knocking you btw, I get that your reply supports my original post!)
Soldato
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I wish you were over emphasising this but add alcohol, tobacco and mobile phones in the mix and you have it.
It would be useful to see figures on luxury goods and utilities expenditure by poverty indices.
Have you guys ever actually met poor people and seen how they live?
There may be a handful of "bling" items for a small cross section of poor people, but the rest of their possessions and the way they have to live, and for all the other less "flash" poor people, is not to be envied.
We need the state to stop paying housing benefit and topping up people's wages.
Employers should pay 100% of wages, and tenants should pay 100% of their rent.
If the govt stops paying money they shouldn't be, wages ought to rise and rents ought to come down. And if they don't, well I'm looking forward to the revolution
Soldato
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Actually yes, worked with, supported, set up chairities for, employed etc.
Well, yes I have. A member of my wife's family is one of those. Aged 45, never worked in his life. Attended one job interview was turned down and has never been short-listed for another one.
I only visit the lazy **** once a year and each time I do he has another state of the art technical appliance in his house. 60 inch Flat Screen TV, X Box, wii, latest i phone etc, etc. He spends half his day looking out of the window through his £500 binoculars. The house gets so dirty (his aged mother lives there) that two of my wife's sisters actually go to the house to clean the place up. He goes drinking at the local cricket club and the occasional night in the cells of a Cheshire Police station for creating a disturbance with his (so called) girlfriend - the Village Bike because every man in the village has ridden her. She lives in her own council house, she won't live with him because both of them will loose some kind of benefit.
Yes, is very sad to meet up with these poor people.