Assumed £19.00 a week cuts expected in benefits to those that need it the most.

cheesyboy said:
A tearful Tory voter on last night's Question Time gave an emotional speech on how the government has ****ed her and her family after she voted for them in the belief they were the better option.
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Yes, but if her employer paid her more, which will happen over time, then the taxpayer won't have to subside the business who employ her, which is basically what has been happening over the ten and more years.
When 2019/2020 rolls around, how much worse off will the woman be, in actual numbers?
Given that the rest of the country has had a pay cut for the past 5 years, child tax credits need to be reconfigured also.
 
Hikari Kisugi said:
Yes, but if her employer paid her more, which will happen over time, then the taxpayer won't have to subside the business who employ her, which is basically what has been happening over the ten and more years.
When 2019/2020 rolls around, how much worse off will the woman be, in actual numbers?
Given that the rest of the country has had a pay cut for the past 5 years, child tax credits need to be reconfigured also.
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Read the article? She runs a nail salon business out of her house (which is probably against her council house tennancy) and it doesn't turn a profit.
 
Scrutinize said:
Actually yes, worked with, supported, set up chairities for, employed etc.
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Then you're seeing a rather different set of people to the family and acquaintances I know. Alcohol and tobacco consumption may be relatively high, but the overall bleakness of their lives is outright depressing.
 
Belly said:
Well, yes I have. A member of my wife's family is one of those. Aged 45, never worked in his life. Attended one job interview was turned down and has never been short-listed for another one.

I only visit the lazy **** once a year and each time I do he has another state of the art technical appliance in his house. 60 inch Flat Screen TV, X Box, wii, latest i phone etc, etc. He spends half his day looking out of the window through his £500 binoculars. The house gets so dirty (his aged mother lives there) that two of my wife's sisters actually go to the house to clean the place up. He goes drinking at the local cricket club and the occasional night in the cells of a Cheshire Police station for creating a disturbance with his (so called) girlfriend - the Village Bike because every man in the village has ridden her. She lives in her own council house, she won't live with him because both of them will loose some kind of benefit.

Yes, is very sad to meet up with these poor people.
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Wow. He's really living the dream.

Great sales pitch for poor living, that. I feel the envy rising.
 
cheesyboy said:
Have you guys ever actually met poor people and seen how they live?

There may be a handful of "bling" items for a small cross section of poor people, but the rest of their possessions and the way they have to live, and for all the other less "flash" poor people, is not to be envied.
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nah the fact is we've got a safety net, a lot of it is poor life choices as highlighted by the other poster:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/112...foodbanks-buy-cigarettes-instead-of-food.html

“The other force at work is the addictions that many individuals and families have, but which particularly sharply affects the budgeting of low-income families. We refer here to the size of income in some families going on drugs, tobacco and gambling.”
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“A family earning £21,000 a year, for example, where both parents smoke 20 cigarettes a day will spend a quarter of their income on tobacco. Even if people buy illicit tobacco they will still spend 15% of their total income on tobacco. Budgeting support is terribly important, but budgetary support alone is often not enough to equip families to kick their addictive habits when addiction is being fed and defended by some very powerful lobbies.”
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Don't ban tobacco / alcohol to benefit claimants.

Ban it to whole population and be done with it. Alcohol is a ****** negative drug. Or at least tobacco, I mean I get why some people enjoy a drink I suppose. I don't do it so can't comment.
 
Well, I know it is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it, but can anyone explain how the tax system works? I should really know this but anyway, looking it up it shows (I think):

2014-2015, minimum wage £6.50, personal allowance £10,500, tax @ 10% (0% from 2015 to 2016) up to £2,880

2015-2016, minimum wage £6.70, personal allowance £10,700, tax @ 10% (0% from 2015 to 2016) up to £5,000

Does that mean you'd pay (£13,156 - £10,500 assuming 9 to 5 for 253 days @ £6.50) 10% tax on £2,656 for the first but none for the second?

Might be more or less, I'm not really sure on holidays as I've only had a two-day holiday a few years back.
 
I was talking to a friend on the phone yesterday. He stated (I don't know if it's true) that he had heard/read that the most requested item at food-banks was dog food!

So poor people or those on the road to penury have been keeping dogs with all the expense involved when they should have been saving to feed themselves in the future if necessary.
 
Belly said:
So poor people or those on the road to penury have been keeping dogs with all the expense involved when they should have been saving to feed themselves in the future if necessary.
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Maybe they were keeping the dog back as an emergency meal?

After they've eaten the wallpaper of course...
 
cheesyboy said:
............ but the overall bleakness of their lives is outright depressing.
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Looking at it from your point of view, it certainly is. However there are a number of people who are quite content with bleak depressing lives.

A bit Animal Farmish but, if you were to take an old pig living in a muddy orchard and put him in a five star hotel with jacuzzi, mini bar, room service etc in no time at all he'd be wishing he was wallowing away in his muddy orchard.

And I think that would be the same with my brother-in-law. If we were to give him a good well paid job where he had to get to work on time, abide by the works code of practice, be respectful to the bosses and his peers in no time at all he'd be wishing he was back to his depressing little hovel. I doubt if he's NOT alone either.
 
Belly said:
Looking at it from your point of view, it certainly is. However there are a number of people who are quite content with bleak depressing lives.

A bit Animal Farmish but, if you were to take an old pig living in a muddy orchard and put him in a five star hotel with jacuzzi, mini bar, room service etc in no time at all he'd be wishing he was wallowing away in his muddy orchard.

And I think that would be the same with my brother-in-law. If we were to give him a good well paid job where he had to get to work on time, abide by the works code of practice, be respectful to the bosses and his peers in no time at all he'd be wishing he was back to his depressing little hovel. I doubt if he's NOT alone either.
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So we should hammer him harder not because he has an excessively good standard of living on the public tab, because he doesn't, but because he has the temerity to be satisfied with the grim pointlessness of his life?

Super. Let's do it.
 
Belly said:
Well, yes I have. A member of my wife's family is one of those. Aged 45, never worked in his life. Attended one job interview was turned down and has never been short-listed for another one.

I only visit the lazy **** once a year and each time I do he has another state of the art technical appliance in his house. 60 inch Flat Screen TV, X Box, wii, latest i phone etc, etc. He spends half his day looking out of the window through his £500 binoculars. The house gets so dirty (his aged mother lives there) that two of my wife's sisters actually go to the house to clean the place up. He goes drinking at the local cricket club and the occasional night in the cells of a Cheshire Police station for creating a disturbance with his (so called) girlfriend - the Village Bike because every man in the village has ridden her. She lives in her own council house, she won't live with him because both of them will loose some kind of benefit.

Yes, is very sad to meet up with these poor people.
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I'm pretty sure that guy isn't receiving tax credits. Wrong debate.

Tax credits exist to top up the wages of the working poor. They are necessary because the cost of living (for families in particular) in this country exceeds the minimum wage by some way. It is absolutely right and proper to seek to eliminate the need for tax credits by increasing wages. There is largely consensus on that. The government has broad support in meeting that aim. But that isn't what Mr Osborne is trying to do. He has sought to increase wages, yes, but instead of letting tax credits die naturally, he is cutting their life short. Doing so is going to cost some of this country's poorest working families a significant sum of money that they simply cannot afford to lose. Why? It's unnecessary. There is no long-term benefit. If Mr Osborne is committed to regular, above inflation rises in the National Living Wage, then tax credits will die naturally.

The motive behind this action is purely political - it isn't financial or even ideological. Mr Osborne wants to lead the Tory Party. He was mocked repeatedly at this year's election for not meeting his targets on the deficit. He knows that if he fails again this parliament, he'll struggle to take the leadership. As a result, he is motivated to think short-term - four years from now, not ten.
 
Belly said:
So poor people or those on the road to penury have been keeping dogs with all the expense involved when they should have been saving to feed themselves in the future if necessary.
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If I was in poverty then I'd probably be reluctant to get rid of a family pet as well to be honest. Do you think that poor people should have no joy in life at all? I supposed you'd argue that time spent petting a dog is time that could be used for job applications.
 
Just to put things in perspective for people - our nursery fees for a single child under 3 are in excess of £600/month.
 
Hikari Kisugi said:
Yes, but if her employer paid her more, which will happen over time, then the taxpayer won't have to subside the business who employ her, which is basically what has been happening over the ten and more years.
When 2019/2020 rolls around, how much worse off will the woman be, in actual numbers?
Given that the rest of the country has had a pay cut for the past 5 years, child tax credits need to be reconfigured also.
Click to expand...

Pay cut?

What about under 25's who do not qualify for the Living Wage?
 
cheesyboy said:
So we should hammer him harder not because he has an excessively good standard of living on the public tab, because he doesn't, but because he has the temerity to be satisfied with the grim pointlessness of his life?

Super. Let's do it.
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Yes, let's do it.

satchef1 said:
I'm pretty sure that guy isn't receiving tax credits. Wrong debate.
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Please reading the opening post, NOT just the title. He mentions umteen benefits

FishFluff said:
I supposed you'd argue that time spent petting a dog is time that could be used for job applications.
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Yes I would
 
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