Germaine Greer on Transexuality

Caged · 24 Oct 2015 at 17:57

I think when deciding whether gender reassignment surgery turns a man into a woman or not you need to work from a clear definition of those terms.

If you define man to be a person born with a penis, then it becomes quite simple. My incredibly limited understanding of it is that people going through this don't believe they were born as a man despite the biology reflecting that.

Dj_Jestar · 24 Oct 2015 at 18:22

balky12 said:
It effects a lot of people. See my previous post. Especially in the work place. It becomes a HR mine field.

If you know someone in HR speak to them about it.

I know plenty of people in HR. There's no "minefield" at all. It's about as much of a "minefield" as when someone takes a different name through marriage or even deed poll.

You've pulled that out of your bottom.

Dj_Jestar · 24 Oct 2015 at 18:26

FoxEye said:
Everything in this life can and must be challenged. Everything. The idea that some things cannot be challenged is proof that the PC crowd are not "enlightened" as they claim. They want to stifle debates around these issues and make them "off limits" to being questioned.

How does that help anyone?

What makes you think you are the first to challenge it? It has been challenged. By many experts in the field of medicine, psychiatry and hell even psychology. They've agreed that people should be allowed to change their gender.

In fact, anyone wanting the op must attend months and months of psychiatric evaluations and therapy to ascertain if they really do feel like they are ready to change.

It makes *no* difference to you. None.

Tunney · 24 Oct 2015 at 20:03

I don't think people here understand the hoops that someone has to go through to have gender reassignment surgery. It's a multi-year process that needs sign off by psychiatrists and doctors. It's certainly not something done on a whim.

Also, comparing it to FGM is bogus. Gender reassignment surgery is done by a surgeon. It's surgery, not mutiliation.

Keyboards'Fear · 24 Oct 2015 at 20:15

Biologically they are not woman, so she's completely right!

If I believed I was Satans's cat, would people accept that? No, first of all because I'm not a cat.

Mentally you can be a woman, but if you are born a male, you're technically a male. You can appear/act like a woman, but you never ever ever will be scientifically be a female.

Even that sky fairy above us would agree that it made a man, so it's a man

FoxEye · 24 Oct 2015 at 20:31

Dj_Jestar said:
What makes you think you are the first to challenge it? It has been challenged. By many experts in the field of medicine, psychiatry and hell even psychology. They've agreed that people should be allowed to change their gender.

In fact, anyone wanting the op must attend months and months of psychiatric evaluations and therapy to ascertain if they really do feel like they are ready to change.

It makes *no* difference to you. None.

Does that mean a MTF should be allowed to use a women's bathroom then? Does it also mean that no woman should be allowed to voice a concern about it?

As it's (according to you) so well accepted that a MTF is indeed a woman, then all the people who object to this woman using a woman's bathroom must be wrong to do so.

Oh and surely the NHS should pay to allow this woman to have a womb transplant, and bear children... (e: I know it's not possible, but perhaps it could be made somewhat possible, with extensive enough surgery and the implant of a fertilised egg... I'm sure at some point in the future this will be a thing).

e: Oh it's already been attempted! I guess I should have seen that coming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterus_transplantation

braveheart · 24 Oct 2015 at 20:38

She is stupid to say that.. How about women to male as male to women that crossdress as transgender, just leave it to people life as health can cause change inside how to feel. People choose to be transgender that up to them how to feel.. Don't say any bad saying or like this just leave it alone

RDM · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:15

FoxEye said:
Does that mean a MTF should be allowed to use a women's bathroom then? Does it also mean that no woman should be allowed to voice a concern about it?

My wife isn't overly bothered about the MTF transsexual in her workplace using the women's loos. Can't say I would be if a FTM used the male toilets. What would be the concerns?

FoxEye · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:23

RDM said:
My wife isn't overly bothered about the MTF transsexual in her workplace using the women's loos. Can't say I would be if a FTM used the male toilets. What would be the concerns?

For a start not all women are comfortable with it. Whilst you're looking at the rights of the transgender, the rights of other people should also be considered. What happens to a woman who feels deeply uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a MTF? Esp pre-ops?

Some transgender people choose not to have surgery, for various reasons. What about these?

What about children (esp girls) mixing with no-op MTF? Not just bathrooms, but swimming pool changing rooms.

I'd say that was a concern or two.

Hitman_Leon · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:27

It was a terrible shame the day PC replaced common sense and manners.

Keyboards'Fear · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:36

FoxEye said:
For a start not all women are comfortable with it. Whilst you're looking at the rights of the transgender, the rights of other people should also be considered. What happens to a woman who feels deeply uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a MTF? Esp pre-ops?

Some transgender people choose not to have surgery, for various reasons. What about these?

What about children (esp girls) mixing with no-op MTF? Not just bathrooms, but swimming pool changing rooms.

I'd say that was a concern or two.

Oh, so if only woman are offended we MUST do what they say?? The word 'Feminazi' is making more and more sense every week

RDM · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:37

FoxEye said:
For a start not all women are comfortable with it. Whilst you're looking at the rights of the transgender, the rights of other people should also be considered. What happens to a woman who feels deeply uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a MTF? Esp pre-ops?

Some transgender people choose not to have surgery, for various reasons. What about these?

What about children (esp girls) mixing with no-op MTF? Not just bathrooms, but swimming pool changing rooms.

I'd say that was a concern or two.

I'm not looking at anyone's rights, just sharing anecdotally. The vast majority of female toilets are cubicles so I don't really see the issue pre or post op there. What exactly are the women concerned about?

Changing rooms are slightly different but again most modern changing facilities are cubicles. What are the concerns of a MTF using one?

RoboCod · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:41

I think she is a hypocrite and entirely ignorant of the fact that a person can be born wired as a woman but in a male form and vice-versa. If anything, she is contradicting herself and doing no good for the feminist movement she seeks to support. Surely she should be all for empowering transgender MTF and FTM both? It smacks of just the fearful ramblings of a deluded old person.

spoffle · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:51

lafemmefatale said:
Prejudice and ignorance.

What's equally weird is how much feminists like Greer are ridiculed, berated and their views dismissed as being pure unadulterated drivel by the vast majority of people on here.... Until they say something that suits their bigotry and then the radfem love-in is in full swing.

Reminds me of the migrant thread which has thousands of replies. Yet a thread about a white terrorist sinks quickly and is full of excuses and mitigation for race crimes.

Stay classy GD, stay classy.

It doesn't make someone a bigot just because they don't accept that a man can become a woman, or a woman can become a man.

In reality, it's actually bigoted to try to impose that stance on people, that they must see something in a certain way, else be labelled a bigot.

phonemonkey · 24 Oct 2015 at 21:55

FoxEye said:
Does that mean a MTF should be allowed to use a women's bathroom then? Does it also mean that no woman should be allowed to voice a concern about it?

As it's (according to you) so well accepted that a MTF is indeed a woman, then all the people who object to this woman using a woman's bathroom must be wrong to do so.

Oh and surely the NHS should pay to allow this woman to have a womb transplant, and bear children... (e: I know it's not possible, but perhaps it could be made somewhat possible, with extensive enough surgery and the implant of a fertilised egg... I'm sure at some point in the future this will be a thing).

e: Oh it's already been attempted! I guess I should have seen that coming.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uterus_transplantation

You're suggesting that all trans people are sexual predators. The evidence I've seen is that trans people, particularly MTF woman, are far more likely to be the victims of violence rather than the perpetrator.

Caged · 24 Oct 2015 at 22:28

FoxEye said:
For a start not all women are comfortable with it. Whilst you're looking at the rights of the transgender, the rights of other people should also be considered. What happens to a woman who feels deeply uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a MTF? Esp pre-ops?

Some transgender people choose not to have surgery, for various reasons. What about these?

What about children (esp girls) mixing with no-op MTF? Not just bathrooms, but swimming pool changing rooms.

I'd say that was a concern or two.

You're going to have to explain these concerns. Dongphobia is really the only issue I can see with a pre-op MTF being in a shared changing area.

holymonk · 24 Oct 2015 at 22:30

Not too sure what she has said that it wrong... You have a sex change, you're still not biologically changed..

Caged · 24 Oct 2015 at 22:35

She never mentioned biologically, and she specifically said that M-F people don't "look like, sound like, or behave like women". This is exactly the argument that feminists were kicking off about with the whole "I don't look like a programmer" thing. She's a hypocrite.

Monkeynut · 24 Oct 2015 at 22:55

All of the Transgendered people I know had huge issues with depression, anxiety, self esteem etc and changing their gender helped them massively. Like talking to a new person.

Threepwood · 24 Oct 2015 at 22:56

Caged said:
She never mentioned biologically, and she specifically said that M-F people don't "look like, sound like, or behave like women". This is exactly the argument that feminists were kicking off about with the whole "I don't look like a programmer" thing. She's a hypocrite.

I have to admit that this raised my eyebrow too.

There are women who don't look, act or talk like women...so by the same logic you have to look, sound and act like a woman to, er, be a woman?

Doesn't seem we have come that far when it comes to not judging by sterotype.