Germaine Greer on Transexuality

[TW]Fox;28736751 said:
Simply as a point of note is it correct to state this is the only difference between a born woman and an MTF transexual? Are they otherwise physically identical?
Click to expand...

Please, quit this reasoning at once!
 
lafemmefatale said:
It's pointless trying to debate with me, as I really don't care what someone's birth certificate says or what they have in their pants. I find people attractive, not their assigned characteristics.
Click to expand...

It's pointless because you cannot actually form an argument or respond to challenges. But given that by your own admission you're entirely close minded on this issue, why continue to participate in the thread?
 
spoffle said:
That is what you're struggling with. Your attitude and responses are that people are bigots and prejudiced if their world view doesn't align with your world view.
Click to expand...

Empathy is indeed something I struggle with, but not in the way you think. I'm very familiar with hyper empathy as it's a large part of my diagnosed BPD. I have a copy of my clinical notes in front of me along with the relevant section of the DSM that references it. I tend to be slightly biased towards cognitive hyper empathy more than affective hyper empathy but it's swings and roundabouts in a practical sense.
 
[TW]Fox;28736751 said:
Simply as a point of note is it correct to state this is the only difference between a born woman and an MTF transexual? Are they otherwise physically identical?
Click to expand...

The only difference to me is that the doctor wrongly assigned their sex when they were born. To think different, in my view, is biological essentialism which history has proven to be a very bad thing.
 
lafemmefatale said:
It's pointless trying to debate with me, as I really don't care ... what they have in their pants.
Click to expand...

Ah well, no wonder. If you're bi, and you don't understand why people wouldn't have a same-sex encounter, then no wonder you're struggling here.

The fact is, most people aren't bi. Most of us do discriminate against same sex encounters. That's just the way it is.
 
lafemmefatale said:
Empathy is indeed something I struggle with, but not in the way you think. I'm very familiar with hyper empathy as it's a large part of my diagnosed BPD. I have a copy of my clinical notes in front of me along with the relevant section of the DSM that references it. I tend to be slightly biased towards cognitive hyper empathy more than affective hyper empathy but it's swings and roundabouts in a practical sense.
Click to expand...

Well that certainly explains a lot.
 
lafemmefatale said:
One of the guys killed himself a few months after being dismissed for petty things that before he changed, were par for the course in the business. Views like the ones expressed in this thread are a large part of the reason why the suicide rate for transgender people is so high.
Click to expand...

No good reason to attack people in thread that had nothing to do with that situation.

lafemmefatale said:
Of course she should. It would only matter to those people who think that trans women are men - and I'm pretty sure she would prefer to avoid those types of people anyway.
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more wrong, having a personal preference for natural born women is not in any way shape or form against transsexuals. What would your next statement be? "you are against gays if you choose not to sleep with one?". If I knew a transsexual they would have equal status to everyone else I know but no matter how feminine and attractive they were I wouldn't want to sleep with them. That is my preference, just like a gay guy wouldn't want to sleep with a woman, lesbian with a man or transsexual with whichever they did not prefer. It would only be right and proper that no-one should ever be mislead into sleeping with a person they do not have a preference for.

lafemmefatale said:
Should I have to disclose that my hair actually isn't Passion Red right now, and I chemically altered it from my "natural" brown colour, for fear of being labelled a deceitful trickster and being hauled through court for obtaining sex by deception?
Click to expand...

Wrong answer, hair colour is a minor detail, like lipstick colour, clothing worn and so on, the original birth sex of a person is a million miles away from what you say there. Not revealing birth sex before a person who has been lead to believe you are of a different birth sex before they sleep with you is total deception. Look at the cases where women have pretended to me males and slept with other females, their deception did not end well, jail time for such things.

lafemmefatale said:
You, and others, are framing the discussion as a trans person being a deviant sexual predator who is out to trick people into having gay sex with them.

On your question of rights, do you believe that the rights of a non-trans person come before the rights of the trans person?
Click to expand...

Not revealing your birth sex to a potential partner is deviant and predatory. It's not about who's rights come first, it's about the right of the individual to be awarded the right to choose whom they engage in sexual relations with.
 
dowie said:
not really - there are some rather fundamental differences

how many trans women have periods, give birth to children, go through menopause?
Click to expand...

Those things don't define a woman. There are plenty of non-trans women out there who don't have periods, cannot give birth and never experience the menopause.
 
lafemmefatale said:
I could say the same to you. :)
Click to expand...

I am open-minded. If someone can put forth a rational argument for how someone with all the sexual and biological characteristics of a man can become a woman, I'll reconsider my position. But that tricky Y chromosome always seems to get in the way.

Those things don't define a woman. There are plenty of non-trans women out there who don't have periods, cannot give birth and never experience the menopause.
Click to expand...

But there aren't many who also have a Y chromosome, male hormones and a male bone structure.
 
lafemmefatale said:
A Y chromosome means you have a Y chromosome. Society assigns characteristics to the result of this, which is complete rubbish.
Click to expand...

well this is the argument some rad fem types take

if there are no gender roles then you can't be the wrong gender in the first place as it is all a social construct - people who want to mutilate their bodies in order to pass as members of the opposite sex are then treated with a lot of suspicion
 
lafemmefatale said:
Those things don't define a woman. There are plenty of non-trans women out there who don't have periods, cannot give birth and never experience the menopause.
Click to expand...

Again, it's about the right to choose. I can choose not to sleep with blondes, if I wanted. I could choose not to sleep with people who wear glasses. I can choose not to sleep with men, or trans women. It doesn't have to be just, or fair, or based on science. I'm just exercising my preference; making a choice.

Now with the first two (silly) examples, I wouldn't be bothered to check beforehand or be seriously upset if it happened. Not really a big deal if you get deceived.

But sex/gender is much, much more fundamental, like we already said. Why is it that trans people get beaten up if they get "caught"? Because it evokes extremely strong reactions in people. The strength of those reactions indicate how much more fundamental sexual preference is than hair colour preference.

It's not necessarily because we "hate" trans people, but the thought of being seduced by one unintentionally, will evoke a feeling of horror in many people. Because it's so fundamental to our choice of partner.

The best defence for all - including the trans person - is honesty. Not necessarily telling all and sundry that your are MTF, but honesty in not trying to deceive a potential partner.

And no, I don't condone violence toward anyone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom