Germaine Greer on Transexuality

I went to great pains to say I didn't condone violence.

Perhaps you don't understand the difference between "explanation" and "rationalisation". One does not imply the other.
 
Well if someone is deceived into engaging in sexual activity with a trans person they're technically victims of a sexual assault - can a victim of a sexual assault respond physically against their attacker? Yup they can to an extent. Does this mean they can just beat them up? Probably not, no.
 
spoffle said:
Do you understand what justify means?

Where?
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Well, perhaps this is why lafemmefatal doesn't engage in debate more often.

They clearly aren't listening to what's being said, and have admitted that they don't consider an opposing viewpoint to have any merit.

It was a fun experiment tho ;)
 
FoxEye said:
I went to great pains to say I didn't condone violence.

Perhaps you don't understand the difference between "explanation" and "rationalisation". One does not imply the other.
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Maybe you don't condone violence. Tefal posted in this thread about a friend of his who still bears the scars of someone assaulting her. While ever your fragile sense of masculinity makes you wander round in life thinking that trans women are men, you're enabling and furthering the views that mean that trans women will be beaten up and killed purely for existing and attempting to live their lives. In short, you're part of the problem and by extension, your lack of action to stop this happening means you are very much as responsible for the violence as anyone else who turns a blind eye to it in the name of the Y chromosome.
 
lafemmefatale said:
Maybe you don't condone violence. Tefal posted in this thread about a friend of his who still bears the scars of someone assaulting her. While ever your fragile sense of masculinity makes you wander round in life thinking that trans women are men, you're enabling and furthering the views that mean that trans women will be beaten up and killed purely for existing and attempting to live their lives. In short, you're part of the problem and by extension, your lack of action to stop this happening means you are very much as responsible for the violence as anyone else who turns a blind eye to it in the name of the Y chromosome.
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Stop talking out of your arse. You are imposing way too many things on people like the huge bigot you are.

It isn't abuse to refuse to accept that a man can become a woman, or a woman can become a man.

I don't accept it, I have no issues with masculinity and I think societal gender roles are BS.

But I simply don't accept a man can become a woman or a woman can become a man.
 
lafemmefatale said:
Maybe you don't condone violence. Tefal posted in this thread about a friend of his who still bears the scars of someone assaulting her. While ever your fragile sense of masculinity makes you wander round in life thinking that trans women are men, you're enabling and furthering the views that mean that trans women will be beaten up and killed purely for existing and attempting to live their lives. In short, you're part of the problem and by extension, your lack of action to stop this happening means you are very much as responsible for the violence as anyone else who turns a blind eye to it in the name of the Y chromosome.
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:rolleyes:
 
lafemmefatale said:
In my last job before I set up my own business, I watched three trans people get hounded out of jobs they were very very good at, by fellow employees and insidious corporate discrimination that occurs when the legal safety nets designed to protect vulnerable individuals force companies big and small to just be more underhand and clever with their tactics for getting rid of people. The equality act isn't worth the paper it's written on when it comes to trans people and that is just not on.

One of the guys killed himself a few months after being dismissed for petty things that before he changed, were par for the course in the business. Views like the ones expressed in this thread are a large part of the reason why the suicide rate for transgender people is so high.
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I find it hard to believe that there were 3 trans people in your job who all got hounded out. That's an incredibly high number. In my whole dealings at work with exposure into a lot of other firms, I'm yet to meet even one.

You met three, and who were fired....



P.s I would postulate that being so messed up in the head that you think you are another gender is probably a marker towards suicide in terms of things that is wrong.....not necessarily that society has forced them to it.
 
lafemmefatale said:
Maybe you don't condone violence. Tefal posted in this thread about a friend of his who still bears the scars of someone assaulting her. While ever your fragile sense of masculinity makes you wander round in life thinking that trans women are men, you're enabling and furthering the views that mean that trans women will be beaten up and killed purely for existing and attempting to live their lives. In short, you're part of the problem and by extension, your lack of action to stop this happening means you are very much as responsible for the violence as anyone else who turns a blind eye to it in the name of the Y chromosome.
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Not at all.

WWII historians inevitably write about Hitler's reasons for killing the Jews.

Does that mean historians are justifying/rationalising what Hitler did, and does it mean historians are encouraging hatred towards Jews today?

I don't think you could say that. And I don't think you can say I'm encouraging violence toward trans women either.
 
lafemmefatale said:
The only difference to me is that the doctor wrongly assigned their sex when they were born. To think different, in my view, is biological essentialism which history has proven to be a very bad thing.
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That doesn't actually answer my question. It shouldn't be too hard to answer really as it's a factual issue.

Is there a physical difference - yes or no. If the answer is 'no' then your points would seem quite valid. Is the answer no?
 
sports_brah said:
I find it hard to believe that there were 3 trans people in your job who all got hounded out. That's an incredibly high number. In my whole dealings at work with exposure into a lot of other firms, I'm yet to meet even one.

You met three, and who were fired....
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I also find this hard to believe. I feel like I am talking to LucyBee again.



P.s I would postulate that being so messed up in the head that you think you are another gender is probably a marker towards suicide in terms of things that is wrong.....not necessarily that society has forced them to it.
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This is another matter entirely, but it's more akin to body dysmorphia, which isn't really being "messed up" in the head. I do believe it's a mental illness, and I do believe the treatments are ultimately botch jobs, but it is something that has to be treated and those botch jobs are the only way to deal with it for some people.

I wouldn't begrudge them getting the treatment they feel they need, it's like anything else where people suffer mentally because of an issue they have with how they look. If they can't fix the mental aspect, then the physical aspect has to be "fixed" in whatever way is currently possible.
 
sports_brah said:
I find it hard to believe that there were 3 trans people in your job who all got hounded out. That's an incredibly high number. In my whole dealings at work with exposure into a lot of other firms, I'm yet to meet even one.

You met three, and who were fired....
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I missed that one too, in 27 years of going out the only one's I have met and talked to were in a bar in Leeds, a bar that I think actually employed TV/TS as part of the theme. I saw one when I was at university, looked like a rather attractive slim brunette from the back but as he/she turned around it was a late 40's early 50's transsexual, complete with stubble. The only other I have ever seen was a guy/TV who I surmise must have been part time in his/her role as when he was working in the bar he was at it was as a male, out around town on nights out as a TV.

Never met one in work.
 
FoxEye said:
Again, it's about the right to choose. I can choose not to sleep with blondes, if I wanted. I could choose not to sleep with people who wear glasses. I can choose not to sleep with men, or trans women. It doesn't have to be just, or fair, or based on science. I'm just exercising my preference; making a choice.

Now with the first two (silly) examples, I wouldn't be bothered to check beforehand or be seriously upset if it happened. Not really a big deal if you get deceived.

But sex/gender is much, much more fundamental, like we already said. Why is it that trans people get beaten up if they get "caught"? Because it evokes extremely strong reactions in people. The strength of those reactions indicate how much more fundamental sexual preference is than hair colour preference.

It's not necessarily because we "hate" trans people, but the thought of being seduced by one unintentionally, will evoke a feeling of horror in many people. Because it's so fundamental to our choice of partner.

The best defence for all - including the trans person - is honesty. Not necessarily telling all and sundry that your are MTF, but honesty in not trying to deceive a potential partner.

And no, I don't condone violence toward anyone.
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Decent post, i tip my hat to you :)
 
RoboCod said:
This forum has it's fair share of self righteous liberals too. You might claim to joke, but the pair of you come across as holier than thou and look down upon others that have a viewpoint that you do not agree with. That is also bigotry.
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Thinking a person is stupid due to them posting stupid things isn't bigotry, neither is criticising a flawed point of view.
 
elmarko said:
Thinking a person is stupid due to them posting stupid things isn't bigotry, neither is criticising a flawed point of view.
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Ah so it's stupid and flawed, because just you said so :) how very bigoted of you.

"Thinking a person is stupid due to them posting stupid things" <- this kind of statement is quickly becoming tiresome too. It doesn't make the person who wrote it clever.
 
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