Germaine Greer on Transexuality

spoffle said:
This is another matter entirely, but it's more akin to body dysmorphia, which isn't really being "messed up" in the head. I do believe it's a mental illness, and I do believe the treatments are ultimately botch jobs, but it is something that has to be treated and those botch jobs are the only way to deal with it for some people.

I wouldn't begrudge them getting the treatment they feel they need, it's like anything else where people suffer mentally because of an issue they have with how they look. If they can't fix the mental aspect, then the physical aspect has to be "fixed" in whatever way is currently possible.
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I agree to an extent, but I would argue (albeit possibly contentiously) that it would be more beneficial for society and the people as a whole to find a cure towards why they feel a certain way, rather than engaging in risky and strange surgery which according to the stats, doesn't really help the suicide rates...

In my opinion, the current acceptance and treatment is treating the symptoms rather than the actual problem.
 
Cosimo said:
Not your twin sister? :p
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Given this:

spoffle said:
They were a guy, and who's paranoid?
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Wouldn't that be my twin brother who is not only a delusional gay man, but a paedophile and sexual predator whose sole purpose in life is to trick unsuspecting alpha males into gay sex using their mutilated genitals?

Hardly a sister, because trans women are men, remember. :p
 
lafemmefatale said:
Given this:



Wouldn't that be my twin brother who is not only a delusional gay man, but a paedophile and sexual predator whose sole purpose in life is to trick unsuspecting alpha males into gay sex using their mutilated genitals?

Hardly a sister, because trans women are men, remember. :p
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Remember? I didn't say they were your sister. Why do you have such a hard time with keeping up with who says what?
 
lafemmefatale said:
Given this:



Wouldn't that be my twin brother who is not only a delusional gay man, but a paedophile and sexual predator whose sole purpose in life is to trick unsuspecting alpha males into gay sex using their mutilated genitals?

Hardly a sister, because trans women are men, remember. :p
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I sense much hostility in this one.
 
sports_brah said:
I agree to an extent, but I would argue (albeit possibly contentiously) that it would be more beneficial for society and the people as a whole to find a cure towards why they feel a certain way, rather than engaging in risky and strange surgery which according to the stats, doesn't really help the suicide rates...

In my opinion, the current acceptance and treatment is treating the symptoms rather than the actual problem.
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People used to "treat" people for being gay (to stop them "feeling" like they preferred male intimate company), among them notably a certain alan turing.

So i'd say that viewpoint is more than "possibly" contentious, although i suppose it sort of works as a disclaimer.
 
I put it to you lafemmefatale that people such as yourself actually make it harder for people such as transsexuals to feel part of wider society due to not pushing for equal rights and consideration by others but actually pushing for unequal rights wanting heterosexual males to be subordinate to the needs of transsexuals who simply want life on more equal terms and none of the BS you peddle.
 
lafemmefatale said:
Whoever this Lucy Bee is, she sounds awesome given how everyone is so paranoid about her.
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Not really they were a rather poor attention whore who used the to shoe horn the fact they were trans(although I can't quote remember if they were just a TV ) into literally every conversation and tried to make it about them and also how they were being persecuted when people pointed out not everything was about them.

Frankley it was rather sad to see and given that that was the only interaction many people here have had with a trans person it has sadly coloured many people's views that they're just needy attention whores and it's not a proper issue.

On this forum she did much more damage to the equality and trans cause than help.
 
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When I was a kid, I was pretty sure I was a robot for a period. Just this evening I had an awakening (came out of suspend mode at least) and realised that yes, I am actually a robot. I realise that physically I am very different to a robot, but as we all know, feels>reals. So henceforth, I wish to be known as T9000: a sophisticated sex robot, sent back in time to change the future for one lucky lady.

Now, I'm off to glue a toaster to my groin. Transmission ends.
 
Tefal said:
Not really they were a rather poor attention whore who used the to shoe horn the fact they were trans(although I can't quote remember if they were just a TV ) into literally every conversation and tried to make it about them and also how they were being persecuted when people pointed out not everything was about them.

Frankley it was rather sad to see and given that that was the only interaction many people here have had with a trans person it has sadly coloured many people's views that they're just needy attention whores and it's not a proper issue.

On this forum she did much more damage to the equality and trans cause than help.
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I've done some digging and I see what you mean. Although you'd think that people would be smart enough to appreciate that the actions of one person absolutely don't define a section of society. After all, does Timothy McVeigh mean that all white men are terrorists?

Regardless of the motive of this forum member, I'm sure given the insinuation that they were a paedophile, sexual predator and being compared to a dog and a robot meant that they were going to rail against the negativity that pervades this forum.

Every trans person I've met have been well educated, intelligent decent people trying to live their lives in the face of horrendous prejudice, discrimination and institutionalised transphobia. I don't know how they do it, to be honest.
 
lafemmefatale said:
I've done some digging and I see what you mean. Although you'd think that people would be smart enough to appreciate that the actions of one person absolutely don't define a section of society. After all, does Timothy McVeigh mean that all white men are terrorists?

Regardless of the motive of this forum member, I'm sure given the insinuation that they were a paedophile, sexual predator and being compared to a dog and a robot meant that they were going to rail against the negativity that pervades this forum.

Every trans person I've met have been well educated, intelligent decent people trying to live their lives in the face of horrendous prejudice, discrimination and institutionalised transphobia. I don't know how they do it, to be honest.
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Most got deleted iirc.

But you've got to temper how this forum used to be with its old owner it's got a lot better though.

In regards to education I'd say the vast majority of trans people I know are not well educated (info know some very successful and educated ones) but most fall into the unemployed, escorts, or makeup/hairdresser.

The trouble of them have around their teen/early twenties tends to screw them in the education department and many have their transition such high focus that career comes a long way back.the gender clinic are bloody useless as well though, once gave a friend a lift there on the back of the bike she was wearing my spare textile gear over leggings and a long tshirt, this gear is what was always worn by my ex and every genetic girl who's been on that bike.

At the clinic they accused her of presenting as a man and not dhearing to the real life test when told she had to wear protective gear as it's a motorcycle they said she should have brought a dress and got changed in the toilets

Frankly if you said that to any girl I've had on the back they'd think you were insane


Sorry for all they typos on phone with predictive text
 
lafemmefatale said:
Regardless of the motive of this forum member, I'm sure given the insinuation that they were a paedophile, sexual predator and being compared to a dog and a robot meant that they were going to rail against the negativity that pervades this forum.

Every trans person I've met have been well educated, intelligent decent people trying to live their lives in the face of horrendous prejudice, discrimination and institutionalised transphobia. I don't know how they do it, to be honest.
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I didn't know LucyBee, but I'm sure you're right and she was a lovely person. Probably well educated and charming.

And I'm sure she didn't deserve her treatment here. The thing is (as you know), we at GD are collectively some of the worst people you'll ever meet. We thrive on the tears of the persecuted. The suffering of the innocent is music to our ears. We can't get off without it.

So you shouldn't take it so personally. We're just evil* incarnate, it's how we roll. We own it. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to water board some homeless people.

*including but not limited to: racism, bigotry, prejudice, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia, theophobia, gynophobia and spheksophobia regina.
 
vincent1989 said:
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Now I'm not saying I'd be happy if I felt I was a prisoner in my body but that is the reality, chopping my penis off and stacking silicone pillows under my skin is not going to change anything it's not reality, it's fake. Psychologically I'm still a man pretending to be a woman (and again, the opposite applies). That may seem harsh but if my son spent a week pretending he was an elephant I wouldn't be petitioning doctors for rhinoplasty to give him a trunk.
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I think your analogy fails because the two examples are too dissimilar in two significant ways:

i) Minor, but significant. We're not talking about a week. We're talking about a lifetime.

ii) Major and in my opinion conclusive. We're not talking about someone pretending to be a different species. We're talking about someone who believes themself to be the same species. The difference between a human and an elephant is major. The difference between a human man and a human woman is minor.

Here's a seemingly simple question that shows that point if you try to find a rational and conclusive answer: How do you define a person's sex?

By genetics? That makes no sense. Sex is biological, not genetic. A gene doesn't have a sex. It's just data. A person's physiology doesn't always match up with their genetic "sex".

By primary sexual organs? By that definition, a person without primary sexual organs doesn't have a sex. Would you tell a person who has had to have their testicles or ovaries removed for some reason that they no longer have a sex?

By secondary sexual organs or characteristics? If you use that definition, you have to accept that a sex change procedure does indeed change a person's sex.

By physiology at birth? That makes no sense - an adult is not a newborn. We all change a great deal from birth to adulthood.

It really isn't such a simple question because male humans and female humans are basically the same - human. Even if your son had a hypothetical medical procedure to make him physically an elephant in every respect (6 tonnes, 4 legs, etc) after years convinced he was an elephant and months of psychological testing, it still wouldn't be anywhere near as real as a sex change. The difference between him and an elephant would still be far larger than the difference between a human and a human even without any sex change.

Whilst that may seem like a massive simplification of what is, for some, a lifelong problem the root of the problem is still the same, psychological.
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Is it? How do we know? The root of the problem might be biological. There's a lot that still isn't known about how human brains function.

Even if it is psychological, it doesn't matter. The only two solutions are to change a person's mind to suit their body (which can't be done) or change a person's body to suit their mind (which can be done with a significant degree of success).

I think that you, Germaine Greer and far too many other people attach far too much significance to a person's sex. It's not really a major thing. It's a minor variation on the same thing, like the same letter in the same alphabet in two very similar fonts.
 
FoxEye said:
For a start not all women are comfortable with it. Whilst you're looking at the rights of the transgender, the rights of other people should also be considered. What happens to a woman who feels deeply uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a MTF? Esp pre-ops?

Some transgender people choose not to have surgery, for various reasons. What about these?

What about children (esp girls) mixing with no-op MTF? Not just bathrooms, but swimming pool changing rooms.

I'd say that was a concern or two.
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What happens to a "white" person who feels deeply uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a "black" person, or vice versa?

What happens to a heterosexual person who feels deeply uncomfortable sharing a bathroom with a homosexual person, or vice versa?

A couple of real-world examples that are or were very common in various places. I'm sure there were some deeply discomforted people shortly after racial desegregation in the USA or South Africa, for example, and neither was a long time ago.
 
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