Poll: Is the 'gender pay gap' a real thing?

[anything I don't mind]

The police force is a good example of where women do less work and get the job on lower standard but get the same pay as men. If anything men should be complaining about wage gap not women. Why don't we see any headlines about that?

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Source to studies please.



Just as well not many people care what you think, I certainly don't subscribe to your ideals of masculinity.

How do you explain trans children?

They are often forced by their parents to fit their gender role but end up going towards the opposite.

 

[anything I don't mind]

How do you explain trans children?

They are often forced by their parents to fit their gender role but end up going towards the opposite.

Gender is a social construct except when someone is born in the wrong body.... makes loads of sense. Haha

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Gender is a social construct except when someone is born in the wrong body.... makes loads of sense. Haha

Whenever people argue there are no differences between the sexes trans children ruin their little theory. All differences happen due to societal pressures boys are forced to play sport etc Derp derp....

I watched documentary about them I think it was bbc or channel 4 which followed trans children on their journey.

One family had a boy and they said they noticed he was different when he wanted to play with barbies and wear pink all the time. Basically just do girly things.... despite his parents trying to force him to be more "male" per say. There was also another boy on there with a similar story.

 

[[TW]Fox]

You genuinely feel that a woman that has the same skill, experience and capability to do a job should be paid less than a man, based on the simple fact that she is female and not male?

No, but the poll is badly worded. The thread title asks the question 'Is the gender pay gap a real thing' yet the poll question asks 'Should women be paid equally'.

I would imagine most of the 'No' votes have voted for the question in the thread title and not realised the poll asks the opposite question...

 

[[TW]Fox]

Just as well not many people care what you think, I certainly don't subscribe to your ideals of masculinity.

He probably has a point though - look at the way male and female bodies are constructed. The 'strong man' is generally built to hunt and fight, the woman is built to care and nurture.

As society has progressed we have managed to overcome basic instincts with intelligence instead, meaning we now live in a society where there is no good reason why a man can't be the care giver and a woman can't be the provider - and IMHO society is better for this - but you can't just ignore how the species was 'naturally' built and therefore where the set roles come from. it seems fairly obvious to me that gender roles have foundation in how we have evolved as a species. The women, after all, give birth and the men do not - the men would traditionally have been fairly useless to society without the ability to provide and defend - its what they brought to the table.

 

[anything I don't mind]

My no vote was for no, women shouldn't be paid equally.

Just joking I didn't read op.

 

[darkgen]

He probably has a point though - look at the way male and female bodies are constructed. The 'strong man' is generally built to hunt and fight, the woman is built to care and nurture.

"Only humanity would fight, and in turn debase nature."

 

[Burnsy2023]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2583786/

I think this is the original experiment that leads to the perception in question.

My opinion, there was a gender pay gap. Now (last 5 years or so), it isn't that bad and shouldn't be.

An interesting study but on it's own does not really support Thompson_NCL's conclusion. I'd need to see longer term studies in humans to be convinced. The age of the participants is also really crucial as much of the learned social stereotypes occur between 6 months and 3 years of age.

This study also seems to suggest that it's not clear cut (as it never is). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23933180

He probably has a point though - look at the way male and female bodies are constructed. The 'strong man' is generally built to hunt and fight, the woman is built to care and nurture.

As society has progressed we have managed to overcome basic instincts with intelligence instead, meaning we now live in a society where there is no good reason why a man can't be the care giver and a woman can't be the provider - and IMHO society is better for this - but you can't just ignore how the species was 'naturally' built and therefore where the set roles come from.

I understand this history, that's not in question, but we do have control over our societal and cultural beliefs now. Like you said there is no good rationale for this view of masculinity now.

 

[Burnsy2023]

The police force is a good example of where women do less work and get the job on lower standard but get the same pay as men.

And this is based on what evidence?

 

[CREATIVE!11]

And this is based on what evidence?

This isn't about pay point but....

For example if I was a riot cop and an aggressive mob are approaching me, I wouldn't feel safe with a woman at my side.

End of day much as woman are complete equals girl powah!!! as tumblr likes to say they are just not and never will be as physically strong as man and have as much endurance. Simple truth. This femo delusion that goes on imo puts lives at risk in certain professions.

This is why serena / venus williams (At time I think they were number 1 in woman's tennis) lost to a french tennis player ranked 100 who smoked and drank alcohol....

Also on reddit another thread where a highschool hockey team of boys beat the olympic woman's team lmfao.

Oh noezzz girl powah guise.

 

[anything I don't mind]

And this is based on what evidence?

Ok you tell me, is it fair for say a female brick layer to put up 250 bricks within a shift and a male brick layer to put up 700 bricks in a shift but they get the same pay because muh equality?

This is a counter question to the op. Should women be paid the same regardless of their productivity just because they are a woman? If it does matter then gender is irrelevant and people should be paid based on their productivity/merit/value to the employer.

How is it fair on the police man or fire man that always has to do the heavy lifting or work the worst shifts?

 

[Tefal]

"Only humanity would fight, and in turn debase nature."

? What is that quote meant to mean?

 

[Tosno]

The fitness test is lower for females, therefore they do less prolonged foot chases, foot patrol, use of force for long periods of time, apprehension of fighting/struggling suspects, moving/pushing objects. Science!

 

[Tefal]

Ok you tell me, is it fair for say a female brick layer to put up 250 bricks within a shift and a male brick layer to put up 700 bricks in a shift but they get the same pay because muh equality?

This is a counter question to the op. Should women be paid the same regardless of their productivity just because they are a woman? If it does matter then gender is irrelevant and people should be paid based on their productivity/merit/value to the employer.

How is it fair on the police man or fire man that always has to do the heavy lifting or work the worst shifts?

Well that would depend what the target for the day was wouldn't it?if the target was 250 then fair play on the bloke but he doesn't get paid extra for extra work (unless he's being paid per brick) if the target was 700 then the manager will be having a word with the person who only achieved 250 regardless of gender.

 

[Tunney]

Seriously though, its quite obvious that people like Skidders wife made the choice to put their career on hold to look after their children. The choice is not made by a male mass which expects women to be stay at home mothers but rather by the individual.

Until May of this year, it wasn't a choice though. Men didn't have anywhere near the same rights to parental leave. For most people, it wasn't financially sensible for the man to stay home and look after a new baby.

It'll be interesting to see where we are in ten years once the new rules have had time to bed in. If the average woman really does earn more than the average man in their 20s, it's going to be logical for a lot more men to take on child care responsibilities.

 

[davido_labido]

women don't do as much hard work as the guys in our place. They don't work in the heavy areas as apparently they can't lift the products. This is bull as none of the products weigh more than 10KG. They get paid the same, no one minds.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Well that would depend what the target for the day was wouldn't it?if the target was 250 then fair play on the bloke but he doesn't get paid extra for extra work (unless he's being paid per brick) if the target was 700 then the manager will be having a word with the person who only achieved 250 regardless of gender.

You tell me would it be wrong then to fire the women for her less productivity, as any similar man doing less work would be. If a women is let go immediately in this sort of instance it is a problem because she is a women and firing her because of not enough output would be sexist. Do you think that is reasonable? Maybe the employer just wants someone to do a minimum of 500 bricks and the women can't do it.

Well it is a trick question because there are no female brick layers.

But it is still a good example because it uses individual units of work. I could have easily said x number of widgets at a factory.

The point is that feminists want it both ways. They want pay to be based on individual merit and gender must be ignored (which is reasonable), and they want it to be based hypocritically on gender (ie women want to be paid more solely because men are paid more) not individual merit. Can't have it both ways.

If women are to be paid more only because they are a woman and not based on individual merit, then men should be compensated as a group for doing more work.

 

[Tefal]

women don't do as much hard work as the guys in our place. They don't work in the heavy areas as apparently they can't lift the products. This is bull as none of the products weigh more than 10KG. They get paid the same, no one minds.

If you mind then complain to hr for equal treatment

 

[davido_labido]

If you mind then complain to hr for equal treatment

i don't mind, but people were mentioning that women don't do less in jobs, i know that women do do less at my place, and mentioned it. It was brought up at a meeting previously and people just said it wasn't worth the hassle to change it.