Court Case: woman tricked into sex with a woman pretending to be a man

Avenged7Fold · 12 Nov 2015 at 13:34

Punish them both (give a small jail sentence to the pretender and make the 'victim' pay all the fees)

The woman bringing attention to the case because she is wasting peoples time. If it gets to the 2 year point and you have been blindfolded every time and blah blah blah, then you haven't really been tricked you have just been stupid and let yourself get tricked.

The woman pretending to be a man because taking advantage of idiots like this for personal satisfaction at the expense of the other persons sexual wants/preferences is terrible. It doesnt matter that the disguised woman was stupid enough to try such a lame tactic or that the victim was stupid enough to get tricked, what matters is that she knew what she was doing, that it was wrong and she did it anyway, then eventually came clean in the hope that she would be forgiven or accepted.

Also ignoring all the ridiculous blindfold stuff and such. The women were friends but the victim never recognised her 'bf's' voice as similar to her friends during those two years?

MooMoo444 · 12 Nov 2015 at 13:43

You'd think you could tell the difference between a real one and a fake one, even these days.

Terminal_Boy · 12 Nov 2015 at 13:54

Mr Jones said:
You would think with 2 years of relationship, and at least 5 sexual encounters, you'd be more "understanding" than going to press charges for sexual assault.

What is the tariff table for the "Expected sausage, got clam" type of sexual assault.

stuman · 12 Nov 2015 at 13:54

i can see this going down a path leading to court cases such as

"he told me he was an astronaut to have sex with me. turns out he was not, i would not have sexed him if i knew....therefore.....rape."

Muz333 · 12 Nov 2015 at 13:55

I-I, just, what...I have no words to say! :S

MooMoo444 · 12 Nov 2015 at 13:58

stuman said:
i can see this going down a path leading to court cases such as

"he told me he was an astronaut to have sex with me. turns out he was not, i would not have sexed him if i knew....therefore.....rape."

"Baby, I'm an astronaut. I dock my rocket in things all the time."

The Geezer · 12 Nov 2015 at 14:15

8 years imprisonment does seem excessive but the law is there to protect the vulnerable.

balky12 · 12 Nov 2015 at 14:17

The Geezer said:
8 years imprisonment does seem excessive but the law is there to protect the vulnerable.

And the stupid?

Tuppy_Glossop · 12 Nov 2015 at 14:30

We can't criminalise being stupid because it would bankrupt the state.

FutileBreadMachine · 12 Nov 2015 at 14:55

We were just discussing this in the office, totally unbelievable how the "victim" could not realise it was a woman/her friend all that time. Firstly the "prosthetic" could not possible feel like the real thing and apart from that, women feel and smell different (face stubble?).

It also raises the issue of what laws are actually being broken if it's consensual - like if you have sex with a transsexual and only find out they were previously a man afterwards, would they be guilty of a crime? If you tell some bird you are some famous rock star and shag her, are you guilty of a crime?

balky12 · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:03

Tuppy_Glossop said:
We can't criminalise being stupid because it would bankrupt the state.

No I meant that should the law protect the stupid.

Tuppy_Glossop · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:06

balky12 said:
No I meant that should the law protect the stupid.

Avenged7Fold seemed to be suggesting the victim was partly to blame for being stupid (post #81)

balky12 · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:09

FutileBreadMachine said:
It also raises the issue of what laws are actually being broken if it's consensual - like if you have sex with a transsexual and only find out they were previously a man afterwards, would they be guilty of a crime? If you tell some bird you are some famous rock star and shag her, are you guilty of a crime?

This was a hot topic in GD recently. The whole transsexual scenario. Now according to a caption in the article which I quoted earlier:

It was around the law of consent that Newland was charged, the prosecution alleging she knew full well that her friend had not seen through her disguise, and would not have consented had she known the truth.

The transsexual scenario would mean they are guilty of a crime. The rock star one? Possibly if you take it at face value. Although I am not sure it would hold up in court. The TS scenario and the one in the papers involve deceiving an individual to the extent that their sexual orientation is compromised. Sexual orientation making up a big part of people's decisions whether or not to engage in a sexual relationship.

Avenged7Fold · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:12

While i agree this breaks no law, i feel the mentality and way in which the 'bf' purposely took advantage of the girls stupidity is enough to warrant some sort of punishment. Of course we cant punish people unless a law is broken but there is some truth to saying that consent was given for someone who didn't exist and not the girl playing **** dress-up.

FutileBreadMachine · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:15

balky12 said:
This was a hot topic in GD recently. The whole transsexual scenario. Now according to a caption in the article which I quoted earlier:

The transsexual scenario would mean they are guilty of a crime. The rock star one? Possibly if you take it at face value. Although I am not sure it would hold up in court. The TS scenario and the one in the papers involve deceiving an individual to the extent that their sexual orientation is compromised. Sexual orientation making up a big part of people's decisions whether or not to engage in a sexual relationship.

I guess that opens another can of worms in that the TS should be recognised by law as female right, and able to use female toilets and go to female prison? So how could the law then determine that they were compromising a hetero person's sexuality if they are supposed to be legally "a woman"?

Dis86 · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:18

FutileBreadMachine said:
I guess that opens another can of worms in that the TS should be recognised by law as female right, and able to use female toilets and go to female prison? So how could the law then determine that they were compromising a hetero person's sexuality if they are supposed to be legally "a woman"?

Really valid point. Either they are a woman or aren't. So it needs to be the same across the entire range.

lafemmefatale · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:51

Dis86 said:
Really valid point. Either they are a woman or aren't. So it needs to be the same across the entire range.

Yet another set of ridiculous prejudices a trans person has to contend with on a daily basis.

Take this hypothetical example, the trans woman who has yet to change her name and complete all relevant legal documents to in the eyes of the law make her "female". Yet she's been self-medding for years and looks pretty good for it. If this woman were to run down the street topless she would be arrested under indecency laws for showing her breasts, yet legally she is "male". And should she find herself in prison, she would be in a men's prison.

That's right, a woman in a men's prison for showing her breasts.

The whole damn system is broken from top to bottom.

DRZ · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:52

There's a parallel between this case and the question over transgender individuals, but like in the big thread on this, how do you define when a man becomes a woman or the other way around?

After gender reassignment surgery and the issuing of the new certificate proclaiming you a woman?

I'm genuinely torn on this - if I found a woman attractive, entered a relationship with her and went my whole life without questioning if they are a woman or not, would it matter if they were born a man? I know that personally I wouldn't feel comfortable if I knew they were transgender up front, but if I couldn't tell the difference then what's the problem? A *very* difficult question.

I think that any transgender person would have to be very careful to make sure that the other party knew their history before entering into any sort of relationship/sexual encounter to avoid any potential legal unpleasantness afterwards...

balky12 · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:58

FutileBreadMachine said:
I guess that opens another can of worms in that the TS should be recognised by law as female right, and able to use female toilets and go to female prison? So how could the law then determine that they were compromising a hetero person's sexuality if they are supposed to be legally "a woman"?

It does indeed get very complicated.

I can't speak for others, but I am a hetero male. I have sexual relationships with females only.

I wouldn't sleep with a female transgender. Think what you like about me. I am sure the majority of hetero men feel that way regardless of how the law sees the female in question.

If I found out I slept with a transgender female I would be taken back and a bit annoyed. Not annoyed enough to press charges or seek retribution mind you.

It's all about honesty and disclosure imo. Don't rob people their freedom of making a choice. (Especially when it comes to sexual partners and then the long term. Especially when *families start being thought about.)

*well aware a man and a transgender woman can adopt; but again, the mans chance at choosing whether to have a natural family or adopt has been taken away.

NVP · 12 Nov 2015 at 15:59

lafemmefatale said:
Yet another set of ridiculous prejudices a trans person has to contend with on a daily basis.

Take this hypothetical example, the trans woman who has yet to change her name and complete all relevant legal documents to in the eyes of the law make her "female". Yet she's been self-medding for years and looks pretty good for it. If this woman were to run down the street topless she would be arrested under indecency laws for showing her breasts, yet legally she is "male". And should she find herself in prison, she would be in a men's prison.

That's right, a woman in a men's prison for showing her breasts.

The whole damn system is broken from top to bottom.

The system isn't broken for the majority. There are certain scenarios for any system which will always prove difficult. I'm sure in your hypothetical scenario where someone were to go to jail for showing their “tatas” they'd have the entire situation considered and housed accordingly.

A tranny concealing their birth sex is another tricky scenario, regardless of what the law sees them as now it is still deceitful to hide such a fundamental aspect of who you are when it plays such a huge part in the relational attraction.

8 years for this woman seems harsh but at the end of the day deception was used for sexual gain at the cost of another, however "stupid"