ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Draeger said:
I don't get it. This is reported to be taking place close to the Stade de France. Surely if you had just taken part in an operation of this nature your plan would be to exfil a bit further away than that? Or maybe they ultimately had no intention of escaping?
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Lying low i guess or something else planned. Not clear yet if it is key terrorists from this group yet, fingers crossed.
 
ak22 said:
Seeing that you can only kill people who are engaging you at war, i do believe those 128 people killed R.I.P are innocent.
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However the statement would be explained by:
1. The state is part of allied forces assisting one or more parties (enemy) in Syria
2. So that means the state is guilty and needs to die
3. by proxy every citizen that supports the state by financial or otherwise is therefore guilty an must die too.

Numerous religions have had scholars pick and choose what went into their books - for example the bible is a committee compilation of selected texts, they've left out and rejected other texts that were also part of the earlier bible. Then you have christian sects taking their individual interpretations of these.

So Religious Text 1.0 was edited and republished as Religious Text 2.0 yet is stated as scripture and believed by many to be the true unadulterated statement of existence, glossing over the fact that it's actually a human edited compilation.

Solars in Islam cannot revise or change the scripture. Todo so would be a death sentence to any religious leader even contemplating it for the points above. So what you have then is religious leaders interpretation giving rise to specific following sects.

So with Koran 1.0 being all perfect and the word of Allah, it is the interpretation of scholarly religious leaders that is key.
 
ak22 said:
The next verse says.

"If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Qur’an 9:6]".


Like i said before you have to read the whole Quarn as their is other verses regarding rules of warfare, I can add them tomorrow and look over the other two quotes off to bed.
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If your a Pagan, and want to remain a Pagan and the State of the country happily upholds that. What then?

My point here is that, from discussions with a muslim work colleague on the train (usually about life the universe and everything else) - this question above becomes difficult to entertain as a possibility beyond 100% certainty as it starts to question the religion and becomes a question for religious leaders. The definition of semantic starts as "it is that because it is true because it it written/taught" rather than "it could be that and open to personal interpretation or rejection". I think it was good of him to broach the subject because being a naturalised Pakistani that was difficult for him to acknowledge or describe why that is to a self chosen non religious individual - even being an intelligent guy with a young family and kids himself.

The State places equality amongst citizens - Muslim and Pagans. The State is governance over how each member of society is treated - absolute. I think it's those aspects that are difficult for some to accept and leads to the lobbying to change - however it then becomes unfair as a state. Especially as the state is there to uphold basic rights of minorities.... so.. that leads to the circular argument about scripture being fundamentally important to a minority that the state should by it's own decree uphold.

The reality is majority of numbers sets the tone of law making over time. If that majority are religious then a country that does not recognise religion suddenly becomes "religious-iced" and religious tensions and civil war occur (just like Syria).

Governments are therefore in this difficult position. Does the majority that abide and operate as citizens allow this or not? This is the tension that exists within France and other places globally. That is politics and where religion is then driven into politics and where then politics of a nation becomes governed by religion (most extreme extrapolation) that is steered by the religious leader (after [if?!] all the war settles).


However all of this is completely irrelevant - ISIS hate everyone that does not bow down to their self-declared Caliph as regard him as the one true voice.

So that means if ISIS conquered the western hemisphere - then Saudi Arabia's Wabanism would be next as it does not bow down to ISIS' leader.

Lets not lose focus here!
 
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3 arrested in the apartment 2 dead including a woman suicide bomber who blew herself up and one more still holed up in there. Sounds like another Cell who were getting ready for another attack :(
 
Terminal_Boy said:
Turkey is not Europe's friend. Never was, never will be.
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Can't excuse their behaviour, but I would be a bit peeved if I was Turkish given I didn't see any silences or gestures by Europe following the Ankara bombing. Also worth pointing out, there was booing and jeering during the minute's silence for the Ankara bomb. Some Turks are weird.
 
ak22 said:
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It's all well and good you quoting 'good' bits of the Quran, but they require the 'pagans' to convert in order for there to be peace. What happens when you have decent people that will not convert? Is that then a situation in which a 'good' muslim can kill a 'good' non-muslim according to scripture?
 
NexusK said:
3 arrested in the apartment 2 dead including a woman suicide bomber who blew herself up and one more still holed up in there. Sounds like another Cell who were getting ready for another attack :(
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Or maybe she was innocent and got blown up by one of the others, after being forced to wear the vest.

This whole (worldwide) situation sucks donkey pole.
Religion: Bringing some people together, some of the time; driving a massive wedge between everyone and causing untold suffering all of the time.
 
Draeger said:
I don't get it. This is reported to be taking place close to the Stade de France. Surely if you had just taken part in an operation of this nature your plan would be to exfil a bit further away than that? Or maybe they ultimately had no intention of escaping?
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Think of it another way, it's either madness or genius, after-all who would expect someone to sit there right next to the crime scene.

Cosimo said:
Hope they've got Abdelhamid Abaaoud alive.
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That would be something, I doubt he would say anything, I think only secret capture and extraordinary rendition would get anything out of such an individual.
 
I just can't believe the justification one of the mothers gave of her son being stressed and that's why he blew up.

Personally when I get uber stressed I blow up in a metaphorical sense.
 
I think in the months and years to come the atrocities we're seeing now will become so commonplace that news of them will be nothing like it is now.
We will just become so used to bombs going off that it will just be a part of life like it is now in the M.E.
 
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dowie said:
not really - they just have a different interpretation - usually the violent parts are explained away by some scholar with some convoluted explanation - it certainly isn't a foregone conclusion that a moderate interpretation is the logical one
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Lucky for ISIS they have you here to fight their corner.
 
Even more good news as it appears that there have only been light injuries sustained by five of the police officers during the raid.
 
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