ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

[dowie]

in your interpretation...

but a Salafist can just label everyone an infidel and crack on...

 

[ak22]

in your interpretation...

but a Salafist can just label everyone an infidel and crack on...

No i will used factual evidence.

 

[dowie]

OK we can start with these violent passages but I suspect this is going to be futile as you're likely to reply with something saying oh but in the historical context X or this is nulified or doesn't apply because of Y etc... and that is a moderate interpretation, whereas a fundamentalist would interpret things differently.

http://2pm.co/demo/2500/9/5/

And when the forbidden months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever you find them and take them captive, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zak

http://2pm.co/demo/2500/5/33/

The only reward of those, who wage war against ALLAH and HIS Messenger and strive to create disorder in the land, is that they be slain or crucified or their hands and feet be cut off on account of their enmity, or they be expelled from the land. That shall be a disgrace for them in this world, and in the Hereafter they shall have a great punishment;

http://2pm.co/demo/2500/8/12/

When thy Lord revealed to the angels, saying, `I am with you; so make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Smite them above their necks, and smite off all finger-tips.'

 

[Rroff]

No i will used factual evidence.

TBH not a subject that can really be settled in a thread like this - its easy to find a verse that seems to say one thing but in the context of another chapter means something totally different in both ways - you can find a section that appears to condemn certain (bad) acts in absolute terms but understanding another part completely changes the definition of those talked about or you can find a verse that appears completely horrific but appears totally different when understood in the light of a foretold future event.

 

[ak22]

OK we can start with these violent passages but I suspect this is going to be futile as you're likely to reply with something saying oh but in the historical context X or this is nulified or doesn't apply because of Y etc... and that is a moderate interpretation, whereas a fundamentalist would interpret things differently.

http://2pm.co/demo/2500/9/5/

Like i said miss parts out and taking things out of context, funny you should choose this versus as is is typical quote used by critics and Terrorists.

Firstly you should read the being of the chapter 9: Surah Taubah, you will see that their was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks, the mushriks violated it and were given 4 months to make amends otherwise war could be declared against them.

Now back to your quote:

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” [Al-Qur’an 9:5]

This verse is quoted during a battle to boost the troops moral. e.g. If you find the emery kill them don't be scared.

The next verse says.

"If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Qur’an 9:6]".


Like i said before you have to read the whole Quarn as their is other verses regarding rules of warfare, I can add them tomorrow and look over the other two quotes off to bed.

 

[dowie]

Firstly you should read the being of the Surah Taubah you will see[...]

and like I said:

I suspect this is going to be futile as you're likely to reply with something saying oh but in the historical context X or this is nulified or doesn't apply because of Y etc... and that is a moderate interpretation, whereas a fundamentalist would interpret things differently.

 

[ak22]

Well of course it was futile lol you didn't even bother reading the whole verses, and you proved my point out of context, missing parts out.

Why even bother when you knew it yourself? If you really want to see the facts go read them.... the truth is out their

 

[Angilion]

This was obvious even to a random passer-by who briefly looked at the thread:

OK we can start with these violent passages but I suspect this is going to be futile as you're likely to reply with something saying oh but in the historical context X or this is nulified or doesn't apply because of Y etc... and that is a moderate interpretation, whereas a fundamentalist would interpret things differently.

Like i said miss parts out and taking things out of context, funny you should choose this versus as is is typical quote used by critics and Terrorists.

Dowie was, unsurprisingly, right. ak22 creatively interpreted the text to cut out the bits they didn't like and pretend they're not part of Islam.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Islam (and Christianity and Judaism and probably many if not all other religions) contains vile things. Any follower of any such religion who isn't a brutally violent bullying tyrannical nutjob must creatively interpret their texts to cut out the bits they don't like. But it's simply untrue to claim that those are the only possible interpretations.

 

[ak22]

Dowie was, unsurprisingly, right. ak22 creatively interpreted the text to cut out the bits they didn't like and pretend they're not part of Islam.
.

Care to show me what i cut out....

 

[Tefal]

To be fair that passage is referring to a specific historical event (a war and the end of a cease fire period) it's kinda like taking Churchill "we shall fight them on the beaches and in the skies" speach to back up a claim that the UK has some genocidal tendencies towards seaguls

 

[Rofflay]

“We have appointed a law and a practice for every one of you. Had God willed, He would have made you a single community, but He wanted to test you regarding what has come to you. So compete with each other in doing good. Every one of you will return to God and He will inform you regarding the things about which you differed.” (Surat al-Ma’ida, 48)

All faiths condoned, Yet verses exist stating the opposite at times too.

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

I think most of these books are conflicting and should all be burned. Humans naturally divide on everything so handing them three different books is cruel. Therefor religion is false and horrible. I mean if you had three kids would you hand them three different books and divide them all? And then threaten them with hellfire? But someone will come along and say but but were being tested!!!


Say that to the hundred million who died in religious wars, a vast majority of them Hindus as well as women and kids. Honestly i duno why people even bother morality is no longer linked to a book. If you need a book to guide you or know right from wrong you fail.

 

[Tefal]

Where are you hearing "new technology"?

 

[Mynight]

I wonder if there will be licenses available to utilise encryption under the 1984 act .

I can imagine a fair few places will still require encryption as a standard. I mean between business not banks/e commerce.

One of my old contracts stipulated I had to use at least a certain level of encryption. Would the future law prevent me from accepting such a contract .

Edit: sorry I thought this was the encryption thread then .

 

[Rroff]

I wonder if there will be licenses available to utilise encryption under the 1984 act .

I can imagine a fair few places will still require encryption as a standard. I mean between business not banks/e commerce.

One of my old contracts stipulated I had to use at least a certain level of encryption. Would the future law prevent me from accepting such a contract .

Edit: sorry I thought this was the encryption thread then .

Problem is once you purposefully put a point of failure (backdoor or other weakness) into encryption the unscrupulous will exploit it - make special cases for i.e. financial transactions so that the internet can function and guess what... those terrorist types will setup their own little online shopfront to use fake financial transactions to communicate.

 

[Mynight]

Indeed it's unworkable as far as I can see. I'm not a computer scientist by any means though.

Just me that got a message saying the forums were closed to commemorate the Paris attacks?

Edit: some sick *******s called in bomb threats on two air France flights. Both are Apparantly fine and back on the journey soon.

 

[Mynight]

Kicking off in st Denis northern France. Apparantly there's quite a gun battle raging there between police and the 9th suspect (well and I assume a few more people they hadn't expected). Suggested there's a fair few injured officers . Sincerely hope the injuries are minor!

90 minutes at least of gunfire suggests it's not just one person fighting back .

 

[MadMouse101]

One been killed

 

[RoboCod]

So the Turkish were booing and chanting Alluh-Akbar during the minute silence of the Turkey-Greece friendly? Classy.

 

[thenewoc]

Live latest

http://news.sky.com/story/1587380/paris-live-latest-on-anti-terror-operation