ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

Rroff said:
The US already have a sophisticated suite of electronic counter-measures in support of the president's movements (for convoys, etc.) I believe they also have the ability to detect drones though no idea if they have the capabilities to shoot them down specifically (by either kinetic or electronic counter-measures).
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Precisely. In the end security forces have to cope with things like grenades through to noxious substances.

The US presidents' car is really only related to a car by the fact it appears to have 4 wheels and looks car shaped. Oh and it's painted Henry Ford black.
 
Rroff said:
I believe they also have the ability to detect drones though no idea if they have the capabilities to shoot them down specifically (by either kinetic or electronic counter-measures).
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The secret service will have to start carrying shotguns.:D
 
Amnesia said:
Lucky for ISIS they have you here to fight their corner.
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better than sticking your head in the sand and saying:

'this is nothing to do with Islam, it is the religion of peace and tolerance'

when actually they've got as much claim to be 'Muslim' as anyone else whether moderate or fundamentalist
 
Gilly said:
Very strange that their coach was unaware of this tradition and was keen on stating ahead of the game that the silence should be observed.

You'd think that a coach such as he, in the game and in that job for such a long time, would be aware of this tradition.
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I see the comments on the youtube video of that are essentially replicating the problem in the region.
 
Tefal said:
To be fair that passage is referring to a specific historical event (a war and the end of a cease fire period) it's kinda like taking Churchill "we shall fight them on the beaches and in the skies" speach to back up a claim that the UK has some genocidal tendencies towards seaguls
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not it isn't like that at all

yes it is a passage concerning war at a time when Islam was quite militant and expansionist, ISIS are at war with (in their eyes) unbelievers with the aim of expanding a caliphate with their brand of fundamentalist Islam (or what they'd see as simply 'Islam') - it is relevant to them

ak22 - also wants to add in something about forgiveness for pagans who ask for asylum... Well I guess maybe if the West wants to avoid terror attacks maybe we should all surrender and ask for forgiveness then - we can all pay a 'Jizya tax' like the non-muslims residents of Mosul (well at least the Christian ones - some of the others, Yazidhi have simply been killed and/or taken into slavery)

no doubt he'll have some convoluted reasoning about why imposing a special tax on non-muslims is reasonable etc..

but like I said before I even quoted an example passage this is all futile - a moderate muslim is already going to be convinced that their interpretation is right in comparison to a fundamentalist and vice versa. The point wasn't to dispute the moderate interpretation but to simply show that these are just interpretations - there is plenty of nasty stuff in the quran and some of it is the basis of Islamist violence - there are a significant enough followers of the more fundamentalist proponents of Islam that simply dismissing them as not being proper muslims would be naive... and frankly dismissing people as non-muslims is what allows the fundamentalists to carry out these attacks in the first place.
 
People bang on about Islam, tell me, what do people actually expect to happen? Go around everyone's door and kill them, send to prison or convert them? A war on Islam is like the war on drugs - unwinnable - and will cost much more than we as a society get out of it. I think we are starting to see that already. It will only get more expensive in lives and material wealth.
 
dowie said:
better than sticking your head in the sand and saying:

'this is nothing to do with Islam, it is the religion of peace and tolerance'

when actually they've got as much claim to be 'Muslim' as anyone else whether moderate or fundamentalist
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This is where your view is fundamentally flawed though. Just because they claim to be Muslim, that does not mean Islam itself is the problem. There are parts of the Quran that are obviously completely incompatible with modern society, but that is also the case with every other religious text. Education has meant the majority of the world has moved on from those views.

Following on from that, if some Breivik-esque nutter killed a load of people and claimed to do so on behalf of Britain, I wouldn't feel obliged to apologise for him because I wouldn't associate his beliefs with my own. That is why I think it is unfair to expect Muslims to apologise for terrorism, as the vast majority would probably consider it totally divorced from their beliefs. Would you apologise for someone you didn't know or agree with because you looked like them? That seems to be the expectation of a lot of people.

Inferring that the peaceful majority are somehow complicit just creates more anger and frustration which creates the conditions for radicalisation. Religion is just a vehicle for ****ed off violent people to be ****ed off and violent, and extremist idiots will find extremist passages of the Quran to justify their behaviour.
 
smelly_legend said:
A war on Islam is like the war on drugs - unwinnable - and will cost much more than we as a society get out of it. I think we are starting to see that already. It will only get more expensive in lives and material wealth.
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Is it the spoon that bend or simply know that it is yourself.

If a religion has no true correct definition because every religious leader has their own interpretation. Then each religion sect ends up being a political group that attempts to strive for dominance to be the true one voice by gaining power and dominion.

It is that organisational structure and where those leaders prefer war rather than work for the greater good which is the problem - regardless of the actual real world religion (it's common across lots of religions).

I understand what you are saying - this is not a physical war. The real war is the minds.

If you are concluding that it all results in an US vs THEM war till one side is extinct. Then there is no greater crime in humanity to help people see with their own eyes.
 
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One More Solo said:
This is where your view is fundamentally flawed though. Just because they claim to be Muslim, that does not mean Islam itself is the problem.
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that wasn't my view - my view is that fundamentalist Islam is a problem and they've got as much claim to be Muslims as anyone else

if you're a moderate say then your version of 'Islam' isn't going to have this problem. I will say there is a problem within Islam in the wider context and that problem is with Fundamentalist Islam, with violent passages in the quran... if you want to confine 'Islam' to some interpretation that explains away or ignores part of that book then there isn't so much of a 'problem'

There are parts of the Quran that are obviously completely incompatible with modern society, but that is also the case with every other religious text. Education has meant the majority of the world has moved on from those views.
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I'm well aware of that though a significant portion of the world hasn't unfortunately and it is a particular problem within Islam


Following on from that, if some Breivik-esque nutter killed a load of people and claimed to do so on behalf of Britain, I wouldn't feel obliged to apologise for him because I wouldn't associate his beliefs with my own. That is why I think it is unfair to expect Muslims to apologise for terrorism, as the vast majority would probably consider it totally divorced from their beliefs. Would you apologise for someone you didn't know or agree with because you looked like them? That seems to be the expectation of a lot of people.
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this is just waffle has nothing to do with my post - I've not asked anyone to apologise

Inferring that the peaceful majority are somehow complicit just creates more anger and frustration which creates the conditions for radicalisation.
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I've not inferred that

Religion is just a vehicle for ****ed off violent people to be ****ed off and violent, and extremist idiots will find extremist passages of the Quran to justify their behaviour.
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no that isn't really the case - plenty of fundamentalists genuinely believe in their interpretation in the same way as moderates believe in theirs - they come from all walks of life, they're not all simply violent nutters (though obviously some are) - plenty of suicide bombers are actually highly educated people who've thought about their decision logically within the framework of their belief. In those instances it is quite clearly the belief that is the issue and people sticking their head in the sand and trying to deny this is a religious problem are being naive.
 
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A train station being evacuated in Paris now for a suspicious package. Probably just a false alarm but it must be pretty scary living there just now, everything will look suspicious.
 
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Sorry if its been posted already... appeared on the DJI P3 owners group on FB earlier :D
 
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