We're also going the same way that the Paris Attack thread went, disappearing into religious oblivion instead of discussing the terrorist threat.
Shame we can't have a little room where they can all go and preach themselves to death.
ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.
- Thread starter RoboCod
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We're also going the same way that the Paris Attack thread went, disappearing into religious oblivion instead of discussing the terrorist threat.
Shame we can't have a little room where they can all go and preach themselves to death.
That's exactly what we don't want as the subjects deserve to be discussed.
Is part of this discussion not about challenging peoples views that we disagree with? That's the very nature of debate. I simply disagree with Zoomees point of view and approach on issues such as this, I certainly wouldn't call that making it personal. I have never insulted him or belittled him, I simply challenge his point of view and choice of words - which I believe are indicative of his opinions.
Zoomee for some reason likes to think that it's because he's a muslim, he's entitled to think that but simply put it's not, it's because I feel frequently that he skirts around the cause of issues or tries to deflect them.
Taking the Charlie Hebdo thread as an example most posters simply stated the actions of the islamists were wrong. Zoomee's approach was 'they were wrong, but...'. This is what I consistently see and I wish to debate why he has this attitude. Nothing excuses these attacks. Not because a missile accidentally fell on a party in Pakistan, not because somebody drew a tasteless picture and not because somebody believes in free speech and liberalism.
Soldato
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Got to love facebook. Already seen a few comments that Paris was a false flag op by the CIA and that we are all sheeple for thinking otherwise
People, they're great.
Or the people making a really loud point about not doing the whole Tricolore thing with their profile pic, because somehow, no matter what happens in the world, it's always about them.
Soldato
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Nope. Most US schools still have a "stay in the classroom with your teacher so you make easy targets" policy.
This was what my kids were told a couple of years ago at a London comprehensive. I told them to ignore it and run like the clappers.
those aren't two binary options... the whole point is that Islam has different interpretations ranging from what we can term 'moderate' through to ' fundamentalist', that ought to be obvious but clearly not to you
no one is supporting ISIS here either - how you can read someone trying to explain that ISIS aren't necessarily crazy lunatics is 'supporting' them requires some dubious logic
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Again with the personal abuse, there was no "hatred" in my post, just a fact
I wish you'd get over the massive chip on your shoulder with your constant
"OMG everyone hates muslims/islam, mods do something !!!!!!!!!!!!
"It really is ****ing boring now
I thought that was down to you reporting all the kaffirs for saying stuff you didn't like?
besides, I'd stopped posting well before the thread was closed and the only person I was guilty of annoying was benny, so sorry chum, blame someone else
I note all the deleted posts in this thread are yours...
I was making tea and missed it all...
from an islamic website
"heard a man ask him [Imam Ahmad]: "When a man has memorized 100,000 hadiths, is he a scholar of Sacred Law, a faqih?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "200,000 then?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "Then 300,000?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "400,000?" And Ahmad gestured with his hand to signify "about that many"
so, memorise 400,000 hadiths = scholar of Sacred Law
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Again with the personal abuse, there was no "hatred" in my post, just a fact
I wish you'd get over the massive chip on your shoulder with your constant
"OMG everyone hates muslims/islam, mods do something !!!!!!!!!!!!
It really is ****ing boring now
I thought that was down to you reporting all the kaffirs for saying stuff you didn't like?
besides, I'd stopped posting well before the thread was closed and the only person I was guilty of annoying was benny, so sorry chum, blame someone else
I note all the deleted posts in this thread are yours...
I was making tea and missed it all...
from an islamic website
"heard a man ask him [Imam Ahmad]: "When a man has memorized 100,000 hadiths, is he a scholar of Sacred Law, a faqih?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "200,000 then?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "Then 300,000?" And he said, "No." The man asked, "400,000?" And Ahmad gestured with his hand to signify "about that many"
so, memorise 400,000 hadiths = scholar of Sacred Law
Did you miss the request just above then?
I thought discussion of the validity or lack of worth of typical islamic teaching, had a bearing on whether ISIS were justified in their interpretation of the qur'an.
If a literal interpretation results from the acceptance of parrot fashion learning, then that is a vaild point.
Much of islamic teaching is faith schools is done by rote, compared to say Christians who are not expected to memorise anything to be recognised, the most common form of Bible study is entirely about trying to understand the meaning of a passage.
This rote learning of the qur'an results in a poor understanding of the concepts, and lends itself to literal interpretations of the frequently violent sections of the qur'an.
Personally I thought this made for a more interesting thread than just suggesting we glass them, or giving them all ice-cream because the Crusades justified Paris.
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Well AFAICS, ISIS were borne out of Camp Bucca/IRAQ war/conflict in the ME. Was there an ISIS ideology/movement before the IRAQ war, I don't know, you tell me?
Do most world leaders/public figures not now agree(ish) that the IRAQ war was illegal and a disaster and probably spawned ISIS?
They are the result of hell in IRAQ/Syria and the ME, for the most part. Yet there was no exit strategy for IRAQ, no real thought whatsoever about that.
The powers that be have created a Frankenstein here. Smart bombs are not so smart, they cause many deaths outside their targets, that's if they even hit near to their intended targets. So many people have died, are dying, in IRAQ, which was largely a secular country anyway, that is was pretty inevitable that some kind of resistance would rise up.
It's really like trying to kill the monster that you have created.
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Do we think the Russians may be on to something with their $50million reward?
What if we, as in the West, offer monetary reward and resettlement to those willing to identify ISIS leaders and all their strategic locations, such as weapon caches and finances? It will undoubtedly be cheaper and have less collateral damage than the current military action being taken.
What if we, as in the West, offer monetary reward and resettlement to those willing to identify ISIS leaders and all their strategic locations, such as weapon caches and finances? It will undoubtedly be cheaper and have less collateral damage than the current military action being taken.
And we keep repeating it. How does France respond to the Paris attacks? Sends an aircraft carrier. How does Russia respond to the airline bombing? Sends long range bombers. There's no end in sight if we don't change tactics.
Soldato
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Not sure what the success rates were when the allies offered rewards during the Iraq war, you may recall the jack of spades etc
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If the reward offer achieves nothing more than making ISIS leaders suspicious of which of their comrades might be thinking about dobbing them in to that nice Mr. Putin, it'll have worked a treat.
correct me if I'm wrong by all means, but didn't the US put bounties on the heads of bin laden and his crew after 9/11, and others over the years? I don't remember it really coming to much, despite (from what I remember) them offering many millions of dollars, (unless of course paid informants provided intel which enabled strikes and raids to be effective)
Soldato
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You sort of sound like a 16yr old george galloway supporter.
Ah the classic stance of "islamic terrorism exists because of our resistance to it, don't be mean to them and they wont be mean to us"
Good old masochism.
ISIS are nothing special, they're just a re branded Al Qaeda the only reason they have so much ground and followers is because of the syrian civil war, and the fact that we've left it to fester for what, 4 yrs now?
Just a little side note, Saddam was harbouring islamic terrorists long before any western intervention and they added "god is great" to their flag, doesnt sound very secular to me.
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You dare accuse someone else of sounding like "a 16 year old George Galloway supporter" and immediately follow it with that?
Obviously you aren't aware that ISIS literally did start in camp Bucca - a US internment camp where many people were taken from the streets of Iraq and kept, without trial, in harsh conditions, for very long periods.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/11/-sp-isis-the-inside-story
edit: a full study on the history here: http://web.stanford.edu/group/mappingmilitants/cgi-bin/groups/view/1
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Here is some irony for you... we only became involved in Syria (and a large part of why it is in the mess it is today) due to the "Great Game" and conflict with Russia and now Russia are the ones going into Syria to "sort everything out".
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