Freedom of speech - KCL's Student Israel society attacked by demonstrators

scorza · 21 Jan 2016 at 15:59

drs101 said:
do you also think radical muslims should be allowed to convene and hold their meeting in place?

Of course not.

drs101 · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:01

scorza said:
Of course not.

you dont agree with free speech?

scorza · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:02

drs101 said:
you dont agree with free speech?

Not totally free no - there need to be limits (and are in the UK).

drs101 · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:05

scorza said:
Not totally free no - there need to be limits (and are in the UK).

isnt that a yes then? within the limits of UK law, same as all the rest.

scorza · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:07

drs101 said:
isnt that a yes then? within the limits of UK law, same as all the rest.

I believe that it's against the law in this country to incite racial hatred, I am in favour of this law which is why I don't think a radical Islamic preacher should be given a platform. For some reason though the law never seems to apply to those guys.

platypus · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:08

dowie said:
well students committing vandalism - throwing chairs, damaging property and setting off fire alarms ought to face disciplinary action - ranging from fines for the fire alarms through to more serious action re: deliberately damaging property - as in warning them that if they do something like that again they get expelled.

No I understand against the individuals who committed the violence, but should the group itself face sanctions; eg if its found it was planned by several people, not all of whom turned up?

Gilly · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:10

drs101 said:
isnt that a yes then? within the limits of UK law, same as all the rest.

If confined within limits, can it be defined as 'free'?

Isn't that like saying 'we are happy that you say what you want to say, as long as you agree with us'?

drs101 · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:15

Gilly said:
If confined within limits, can it be defined as 'free'?

Isn't that like saying 'we are happy that you say what you want to say, as long as you agree with us'?

no not truly, the point has been made already for the brits its more of a concept, for the US its a right.

scorza · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:17

Gilly said:
If confined within limits, can it be defined as 'free'?

Isn't that like saying 'we are happy that you say what you want to say, as long as you agree with us'?

I caught a bit of a BBC3 documentary about the Klu Klux Klan the other night. These two idiots had printed a newsletter which featured a disgusting poem about President Obama and were distributing them via a "drive by" i.e. rolling them up with an elastic band and throwing them onto people's driveways as they drove past (I believe this is a common way of distributing lightweight literature in the USA, based mainly on the computer game Paper Boy). The narrator said that in the UK this would be illegal because of our racial equality laws, but in the USA where freedom of speech is guaranteed in the constitution there was nothing the police could do to stop them. I would much rather have our laws in this regard than theirs -what say you?

drs101 · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:18

scorza said:
I caught a bit of a BBC3 documentary about the Klu Klux Klan the other night. These two idiots had printed a newsletter which featured a disgusting poem about President Obama and were distributing them via a "drive by" i.e. rolling them up with an elastic band and throwing them onto people's driveways as they drove past (I believe this is a common way of distributing lightweight literature in the USA, based mainly on the computer game Paper Boy). The narrator said that in the UK this would be illegal because of our racial equality laws, but in the USA where freedom of speech is guaranteed in the constitution there was nothing the police could do to stop them. I would much rather have our laws in this regard than theirs -what say you?

agreed

Danthus · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:24

drs101 said:
sure why not

I have no problem with it.

Danthus · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:29

scorza said:
Of course not.

Why not?

Tunney · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:32

dowie said:
erm they're not not being invited, they're being invited and either banned or having petitions to ban them - I'm just highlighting the double standards present on university campuses. That an Islamist preacher isn't well known is irrelevant, the Islamic societies who invite him know who he is, he's got his speeches on youtube etc...

The Islamic society involved obviously shouldn't have booked him but you can't blame the wider university for not knowing who he is. It's much easier to vet people who are regularly on British TV.

There's no double standards here.

Cosimo · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:33

OldCoals said:
I have no problem with it.

So you're happy for them to say whatever they want, wherever they want even if it is seditious?

scorza · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:33

OldCoals said:
Why not?

Because radical Islamic hate preachers incite violence and racism and represent a very real threat to the security of this country.

Danthus · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:34

Cosimo said:
So you're happy for them to say whatever they want, wherever they want even if it is seditious?

Absolutely, it is a small price to pay.

drs101 · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:36

scorza said:
Because radical Islamic hate preachers incite violence and racism and represent a very real threat to the security of this country.

so do the edl and bnp, they dont get banned either.

Cosimo · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:38

OldCoals said:
Absolutely, it is a small price to pay.

Even if the meetings lead to acts of terror?

C.R.A.Z.Y · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:40

scorza said:
I believe that it's against the law in this country to incite racial hatred, I am in favour of this law which is why I don't think a radical Islamic preacher should be given a platform. For some reason though the law never seems to apply to those guys.

You do realize that new laws have been introduced that now make it a criminal offence to publicly show support for ISIS :confused:

People like you are so devoid of reality it's pathetic!

scorza · 21 Jan 2016 at 16:41

drs101 said:
so do the edl and bnp, they dont get banned either.

EDL marches get banned and no-platformed all the time.