It's the 21st century, equality and all that jazz. If someone swings at you, you can hit them back. She has bigger issues than MS starting a fight she has no chance of winning, unless she enjoys being the victim and all the drama.
Caught on CCTV: Moment woman attacks member of the public
- Thread starter dowie
- Start date
You can see in the reflection of the car bonnet that there's a a physical altercation between the two males.
And then takes a detour to confront the man just out of shot (as above). If it was such a hostile situation he should've been in his car and gone.
If she'd acted in exactly the same manner as the man did in this instance, yes of course. Audio would be great but body language tells you enough to know that the man was being aggressive, he doesn't appear threatened or in danger at any point.
She shouldn't have made that odd swing at him, I agree. That doesn't justify him swinging back (especially considering it didn't even touch him).
The whole thing could've been avoided by either party really, but ultimately someone was seriously injured as a result of the other's actions and the courts are simply not going to find that it was a proportionate level of force to use in those circumstances.
No youve made stuff up. The woman attempted to hit the chav but failed ergo didnt hit him. so the bit in bold is stuff you've made up to legitimize your argument.
But certainly if a woman acted like those chavs did then yes she is very aggressive.
You have to take into account the whole picture. The driver initiated the aggression (trespassing by driving onto someone elses property) Then when he is confronted about it the driver ignores or responds either abusively or negatively to a probably reasonable request to move his car. Then things get ugly. And the main reason for that is because the two elderly folk decide to take a stand, yes ill-advisededly but they are not the aggressors. Its their property. They could have just ignored it and let people trod all over them but that is not a way to live.
Like ive said previously a clear sign warning against tresspassing vehicles AND THIS
= SOLUTION AND CHAVS GETTING PWNED. A win for humanity and justice
Surfer, driver didn't initiate the aggression, we can't tell who did. He initiated the encounter - huge difference but even then the couple had left and came back to engage, then attempted to prevent the driver from leaving.
Even if she failed to hit him (which I doubt) he reacts instinctively in self-defence and bottom line is that's how a jury will likely view it, he's not set out to attack her, she's come at him, pursued him, pushed him and hit (or attempted to), he's trying to leave. It's not as if she's trying to detain him, she's attacking and that's the thing a lot of people in this thread seem to be struggling with, a woman attacking a man. It could easily be argued that the driver by trying to leave was attempting to de-escalate the incident.
The two men who get out the car both LOOK like they take aggressive stances, but neither is seen initiating a physical encounter, the woman on the other hand clearly does, nobody comes out of this innocent though except potentially the passenger and the male who's seen doing something off camera (in reflection).
Even if she failed to hit him (which I doubt) he reacts instinctively in self-defence and bottom line is that's how a jury will likely view it, he's not set out to attack her, she's come at him, pursued him, pushed him and hit (or attempted to), he's trying to leave. It's not as if she's trying to detain him, she's attacking and that's the thing a lot of people in this thread seem to be struggling with, a woman attacking a man. It could easily be argued that the driver by trying to leave was attempting to de-escalate the incident.
The two men who get out the car both LOOK like they take aggressive stances, but neither is seen initiating a physical encounter, the woman on the other hand clearly does, nobody comes out of this innocent though except potentially the passenger and the male who's seen doing something off camera (in reflection).
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That's some amazing stupidity from that woman. How did she honestly think that was going to work out for her?
She encounters someone who looks like a chav and acts like a chav, then decides to try to punch him. I'd have known that wasn't a good idea when I was 6 years old, let alone 49.
She encounters someone who looks like a chav and acts like a chav, then decides to try to punch him. I'd have known that wasn't a good idea when I was 6 years old, let alone 49.
Well i see the aggression beginning from when they drove the car onto someone elses property. That is the beginning of the aggression. So yes the driver did initiate the aggression.
The couple come back to engage because its their property....and they most likely are at their wits end at yet another car doing this. The 2 people in the car have perfect opportunity to leave and not upp the aggression any more but they stay when there was no need (driver had been to shop and only had to drive away). The elderly chap has no chance seriously but feels he will defend his property and his rights. Laudable but misguided.
Its not self-defence because that is not an isolated incident. Its a series of incidents of aggression which has led to the whole situation boiling over. She was wrong to attack him. But he constantly upped the aggression at every opportunity and he is the one who callously broke her jaw with no thought or concern for her or the elderly man when he drove off with him hanging onto his car door.
I would say the driver wasnt trying to leave at that point either (the faceoff with the woman). He had a clear obvious chance to leave earlier and he didnt take it. He is doing his whole alpha dog boxing stance blah blah. Hes broke the law and hes trying to cow the elderly couple into backing off..they unfortunately do not and come off the worse for it.
Just my opinion of the incident:
Blokes park in front of business, no bollards or anything. Note the other car parked in front of what I assume is another buisness.
0:20 Old guy starts demanding something, light tracksuit guy clearly shows him he'll be back in a moment.
0:30 As old guy is going after him, passenger opens door and starts explaining the situation. Note the old guy touches the car's door.
0:35 Light tracksuit clearly shows him to step aside.
0:40-1:00 old guy at the front of the car clearly shouting at the passenger (judging by the arm movements), passenger remains relatively calm until 1:05.
1:15 Driver comes back, intending to leave as shown by him opening the doors, then I assume the owner says something nasty making the driver come to him, then throws a punch at 1:25 (reflection on the bonnet).
1:25 Driver is clearly angry but tries to leave, the woman is seen touching him from the back.
1:30 Driver tries to get into his car, woman throws a punch, misses, driver reacts to the punch instinctively, knocks out the woman.
1:35-1:45 Driver and owner both shout at each other, driver does not pay attention to the woman on the ground, probably doesn't even see her because of the shouting owner. Tries to leave.
1:50 Owner tries to rip the doors open (not the smartest move tbh).
1:55 Car leaves with open doors, knocking the cone (why was it there, to act like a "bollard"?) Owner is seen going after them shouting something.
From what I've seen in the footage, blokes shouldn't have parked that close to the property, some anger management lessons would be nice too. On the other hand, owner and the woman should have had some common sense not to attack a guy half their age and most likely in a lot better shape than them. Finally, if they don't like it when someone parks in front of their shop, they might as well put up a sign "Please don't park in front of the shop".
Blokes park in front of business, no bollards or anything. Note the other car parked in front of what I assume is another buisness.
0:20 Old guy starts demanding something, light tracksuit guy clearly shows him he'll be back in a moment.
0:30 As old guy is going after him, passenger opens door and starts explaining the situation. Note the old guy touches the car's door.
0:35 Light tracksuit clearly shows him to step aside.
0:40-1:00 old guy at the front of the car clearly shouting at the passenger (judging by the arm movements), passenger remains relatively calm until 1:05.
1:15 Driver comes back, intending to leave as shown by him opening the doors, then I assume the owner says something nasty making the driver come to him, then throws a punch at 1:25 (reflection on the bonnet).
1:25 Driver is clearly angry but tries to leave, the woman is seen touching him from the back.
1:30 Driver tries to get into his car, woman throws a punch, misses, driver reacts to the punch instinctively, knocks out the woman.
1:35-1:45 Driver and owner both shout at each other, driver does not pay attention to the woman on the ground, probably doesn't even see her because of the shouting owner. Tries to leave.
1:50 Owner tries to rip the doors open (not the smartest move tbh).
1:55 Car leaves with open doors, knocking the cone (why was it there, to act like a "bollard"?) Owner is seen going after them shouting something.
From what I've seen in the footage, blokes shouldn't have parked that close to the property, some anger management lessons would be nice too. On the other hand, owner and the woman should have had some common sense not to attack a guy half their age and most likely in a lot better shape than them. Finally, if they don't like it when someone parks in front of their shop, they might as well put up a sign "Please don't park in front of the shop".
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Whilst that might have been a trigger, it wasn't the start of the aggression. The start of the encounter perhaps, but not the aggression. That all comes from the older couple. That's the problem here.
In terms of legality the driver is certainly in a better position than the woman. He could perhaps be done for reckless driving in leaving without checking around him, but as he was being attacked at the time I doubt he'd be done for it.
The woman has attacked an innocent member of the public, so she's certainly worse off in the eyes of the law, though she got what she should have expected so there's no real point wasting time following it up.
Realistically it comes from whatever happened at the front of the car, which is unfortunately mostly out of shot. The driver's keenness to be confrontational hasn't helped his situation though and again, from body language alone you can see he's happy to use his physical presence to intimidate.
He smashed her face in! The law allows you to defend yourself but there has to be some amount of proportionality to it. He was younger, stronger and quicker than her; he could have grabbed her arms, pushed her back or moved away himself.
But hey, if nothing else maybe they'll do him for driving without a seatbelt.
A single punch isn't really that disproportionate (stamping her face into the ground afterwards would have been) - he was in the middle of getting into the car so his range of mobility for getting away from a potential attack was to a degree limited.
Driving onto what appears to fairly clearly be someone elses property while maybe not aggressive you can't really be surprised if they take exception to it and it is potentially provocative.
I thought the property they parked in front of was also a business address?
Or was the part about the old thugs being business owners nothing to do with it?
After re-reading it is indeed a shop they parked in front of, maybe they were going to that shop after the other? Doesn't look like the old thugs gave them much of a chance to come shopping =P
Or was the part about the old thugs being business owners nothing to do with it?
After re-reading it is indeed a shop they parked in front of, maybe they were going to that shop after the other? Doesn't look like the old thugs gave them much of a chance to come shopping =P
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not really, if they block the driveway with those then their customers can't park there either
unless they fancy faffing about with the remote/having a customer beep the horn every time they pull up to visit
One person came out of that confrontation unscathed whilst the other needed surgery. It's about as disproportionate as it gets.
If Peugeot driver hadn't been in such a mad rush in the first place he might have noticed the free parking space in front of the Transit van. He comes across as more and more of an idiot every time I watch the footage.
Devil's Advocate, maybe they don't have any genuine claim to that land, anyone is perfectly entitled to park there but they aggressively approach anyone who does because they simply don't like people parking there.
What I find really strange is the willingness to brand him chav scum and judge what he did, twinned with the excusing of her/them and what she/they did.
We don't know that he did anything other than park in front of a business except retaliate and beat a hasty retreat. We know she attacked a member of the public in broad daylight.
If he was in a suit driving a nice car and she was in a shell suit with a fag hanging outta her mouth I imagine the judgements would be different. He's being judged on his appearances, not his actions. Same with her.
One person started the physical confrontation. That she came off worse is neither here nor there really.
We don't know that he did anything other than park in front of a business except retaliate and beat a hasty retreat. We know she attacked a member of the public in broad daylight.
If he was in a suit driving a nice car and she was in a shell suit with a fag hanging outta her mouth I imagine the judgements would be different. He's being judged on his appearances, not his actions. Same with her.
One person started the physical confrontation. That she came off worse is neither here nor there really.
Can't necessarily use the outcome as a guide to is if was disproportionate as a response - he could have say attempted to restrainer her and she tripped and did significant damage falling over, etc.
They shouldn't have parked there and we don't know what happened off camera. But person 1 attacked person 2 and missed. In reaction person 2 defended themselves and punched back.
Being a woman doesn't give her any right to physically attack someone and she got equality back. I am unlikely to have punched her in such circumstances but I can't blame the man for reacting when he was physically assaulted.
Being a woman doesn't give her any right to physically attack someone and she got equality back. I am unlikely to have punched her in such circumstances but I can't blame the man for reacting when he was physically assaulted.
That's odd, because I can see plenty more than that; he was confronted and apparently asked/told not to park there, yet did anyway and wandered off. He then came back and instead of just getting in his car and driving away, got into a confrontation with two people which then led to one of them incurring injuries.
To the law it's entirely relevant.
A situation which would be looked upon differently to a straight-up punch in the face powerful enough to break a jaw.