English over politeness...

HecFam said:
Or its because I just fluffed up a goal scoring opportunity for everyone. It may not be necessary, but i thought it would be polite to acknowledge my mistakes.

Im not insecure about my ****e football ability, I'm very secure in the knowledge that I am proper crap. But fair enough.
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if you make a major or occasional fluff up then fine, but you essentially said you always apologise for everything even when you don't need to. Two different things.

Lopéz said:
Over politeness doesn't bother me. I don't see it as a "weakness" either, but then I don't go about looking for weaknesses in people in general really.
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You don't "have to go looking" for weaknesses to view something as such. If someone apologises to me for things that don't need apologising for, thus denigrates themselves on a constant basis, then this is not a good character trait and very quickly becomes tiring to listen to and be forced to acknowledge.
 
Eh, still, I'd prefer to live in a world where people apologised more often than they needed to than not at all. Doesn't get on my wick, quite the opposite if anything.
 
"Sorry, can we have the bill, please" ?

Apologizing for wanting to pay for you're meal, lol.
 
Richdog said:
You want me to name the people I know or have known that you have no hope of knowing? Then start referencing serial killers? Erm, ok. Right.
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I misread your original post. I thought you spoke in general terms rather than personal experience. More coffee is needed.

Still, being violent doesn't make you uncivilized.
 
OP if over-politeness is one of your bigger issues with the state of society/UK/Britishness in general, then you should be thankful.

Having also lived abroad for a number of years, I can tell you that it is our over-politeness that sets us apart from many of our mainland brethren, and also endears us greatly to people the world over.

Its not a bad thing, in general. Yes, in the context of overdoing it, it is overbearing and annoying...why don't you just stop the offending person and say "are you for real?" or pull them up some other way...or would that be too impolite? :D
 
Richdog said:
lets me just start by saying that this is not an attack against politeness. I like people saying please, thank you, and holding doors open when you are behind them. What I am talking about is the English penchant for many of the people who do those nice things going uncomfortably overboard with them.

I'm not sure whether I have lived away from the UK for too long or if is a reasonably recent cultural development, but in the last 6 months each time I come back to Old Blighty for work I am noticing the following:

1) People standing there and waiting to hold open the door for you when you are about 20-30m behind them. You then feel obliged to do a quickstep and hurry up to get through asap, or stay at the same pace and watching them fill your vision for the next 10 agonisingly slow seconds, waiting expectantly. What happened to taking a look behind, making a snap judgement on how close someone is, and then if too far just going through the door and letting them open it themselves? Common sense, please. I may try walking slower and seeing what happens. :D

2) Letting other people through a door. In theory this is also nice when done properly. However, that is until you get the type of person that feels they have to wave you through even when you have first visibly stopped to let them through. What then follows is a "no, you first", "no, please, you" until someone finally relents. Is it a politeness competition? Most gentlemanly award? I cringe inwardly each time. :o

3) SAYING SORRY FOR EVERYTHING. Seriously, it is starting to drive me up the wall being apologised to around thirty times per day. Someone has to pass by within 1 metre of you in the office? "Sorry". Someone reaches for something that you are not even in the way of? "Sorry". And what makes me laugh even more is that some people combine this into one epic: "sorrycheersthanks". Yes... sorry, cheers, and thanks. All blended into one catch-all word describing every possible feeling that could be evoked by their actions.

So, in summary... politeness is good, but this faux-over politeness that people seem to do without knowing why, thus creating socially awkward situations is really causing me to scratch my head and wonder what is going on. Do us Brits have an ingrained sense of social anxiety about not appearing polite enough? Do we (those that are actually polite) try too hard when doing so? Have we just lost the ability to make good common sense decisions in the burgeoning wave of uber-PC mania washing over our society?

One thing I can say for sure that in the countries I have lived or worked in, this is pretty unique to Britain. Other countries don't over-think it to the borderline obsession we display, they just do it (or not, as the case my be) according to their own instinctive levels of common sense and things just aren't awkward.

Answers on a postcard please, as well as any funny stories or observations you have from your own experience. :)
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A completely pointless whinge. Accept the UK for what it is or don't moan.
 
I see all your points but these days the English/British tend to be over polite, which is better than the other extreme where some brit’s are very rude/don’t give a poo. I rather we be the former than the latter but in general we are slowing being more like the later.

As for politeness, when I was in japan I found the Japanese reactions to me being polite very odd. Held a door open to a policeman that was walking behind me and he ending up bowing when walking through, a “domo” or “domo arigatou” (Thank you). Same thing later on that same day I was on some sort of magnetic tram to see the Life size gundam (I was on holiday) when I gave up my seat to a very elderly lady, she was very apologetic :-/ I did’nt get it
 
KillBoY_UK said:
I see all your points but these days the English/British tend to be over polite, which is better than the other extreme where some brit’s are very rude/don’t give a poo. I rather we be the former than the latter but in general we are slowing being more like the later.

As for politeness, when I was in japan I found the Japanese reactions to me being polite very odd. Held a door open to a policeman that was walking behind me and he ending up bowing when walking through, a “domo” or “domo arigatou” (Thank you). Same thing later on that same day I was on some sort of magnetic tram to see the Life size gundam (I was on holiday) when I gave up my seat to a very elderly lady, she was very apologetic :-/ I did’nt get it
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si fueris Rōmae, Rōmānō vīvitō mōre; si fueris alibī, vīvitō sicut ibi

If you should be in Rome, live in the Roman manner; if you should be elsewhere, live as they do there.
 
Richdog said:
You don't "have to go looking" for weaknesses to view something as such. If someone apologises to me for things that don't need apologising for, thus denigrates themselves on a constant basis, then this is not a good character trait and very quickly becomes tiring to listen to and be forced to acknowledge.
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Here is your problem. You assume politeness is a sign of weakness or submission. Not only that but you assume this to be a universal law and therefore associate people who are polite as less than you.

I think this says far more about you than anyone else being polite to you.

Politeness is a sign of modern socio development. It is used to save face to both parties in a situation and serves no negative purpose by itself. Originally it was associated with the upper class etiquette, so it would be more accurate to assume someone like you who abhors it, that you are poor, lower class and uncouth but a polite person wouldn't do that, so i wont :)

Doesn't cost anything to be polite, i find those that describe it as a weakness must associate a polite person/character that is/was in their life with weakness. What other reason is there?
 
byeo said:
"Sorry, can we have the bill, please" ?

Apologizing for wanting to pay for you're meal, lol.
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You are apologising for interrupting the waiter/waitress while they are about doing their work. Personally I say "excuse me, can I have the bill please?"

I much rather live in a world where people are polite and I don't see it as a weakness at all, I see it as people that like to think of others not just of themselves.
 
I expect some gruff Londoners response to this thread would be something like this:

"If you dont like it mate you can do one"
 
Freefaller said:
The saying sorry for anything is something I notice to be very Canadian - I have a few Canadian friends and my cousin is married to a Canadian and they do say sorry for unnecessary things... i.e. someone bumps into them "sorry!"

I like that part of the Brits, but I'm just un-British enough not to have too many of those idiosyncrasies! However, when I do visit family in the other parts of the world they do say that "You're ever so British!" - which is amusing! :D
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Mrs has been in the UK for 15 years.. however she just doesn't bother with the englishisms.. she just lets the french accent do the work.

However the french border guards always say she's got very good french for an english person :D :D
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Here is your problem. You assume politeness is a sign of weakness or submission. Not only that but you assume this to be a universal law and therefore associate people who are polite as less than you.

I think this says far more about you than anyone else being polite to you.

Politeness is a sign of modern socio development. It is used to save face to both parties in a situation and serves no negative purpose by itself. Originally it was associated with the upper class etiquette, so it would be more accurate to assume someone like you who abhors it, that you are poor, lower class and uncouth but a polite person wouldn't do that, so i wont :)

Doesn't cost anything to be polite, i find those that describe it as a weakness must associate a polite person/character that is/was in their life with weakness. What other reason is there?
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While I appreciate your attempt to educate me on basic psychology and The History of Politeness, a person does not have to be aware that they are denigrating themselves in order to do so, they are more than capable of (however well-meaning) doing it themselves. Constantly apologising to people where there is no real reason is basically acting submissively, and many people do find that annoying especially when there is no need for it.

Again (sigh), I have to re-state that I have no issue with normal levels of politeness in general, having written that clearly at the start of the post. What I have an issue with is the exaggerated display of manners, "politeness peacocking" if you will, which is not in fact an endearing quality and is often instead an uncomfortable and irritating experience when dealing with it on a daily basis.

This whole discussion has to be taken in context... obviously it's better for people to be polite (even over polite) than the opposite. However, that doesn't make it any less of a relevant observation.

George Hincapie said:
A completely pointless whinge. Accept the UK for what it is or don't moan.
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Quoted for the lulz.
 
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