Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[Avenged7Fold]

We fully control who comes and goes as far as eu residences who were not originally from the EU eg. these refugees years from now. That seems to be the main driving concern behind immigration and funnily enough one of the things least affected by brexit.

 

[Cosimo]

Yes, if we hadn't spent £9m on a leaflet we could have built a new hospital. That was absolutely the choice on the table - Hospital or Leaflet.

You'd better send Corbyn an email. He'll love you for it.

 

[Lima]

Lots and lots - they spent money here, they enjoyed holidays here, they traveled around the country and some of them purchased property here, paid rent here, paid taxes here and started businesses here. In return, we went to Europe, we went on holiday there, we bought property there, some of us paid taxes there, we worked there and some of us started businesses there.

Isn't it great?

1.26 million British people live in Europe.

Just to be pedantic; 64 million British people live in Europe. Whether we leave or stay in the EU, we are still European, plain and simple.

The 1.26 million you mention would still have the opportunity to live in another European Country whether we belonged to the EU or not, providing they met the desired Country of residence criteria.

Lets not forget that most of that 1.26 million are retired people that have gone to live in a sunnier climate, have earned a pot of retirement money in the UK, paid for their foreign property outright and pay for their own medical insurance etc etc.

Nobody is leaving the UK for Eastern Europe to go wash cars for cash in hand.

 

[Gux]

We would have a much greater leverage to get our own deals. They won't be the same as Norway's.

But you won't, because the EU cannot give you one. If they do and the UK is far better off outside the EU, what is the incentive for other EU countries to stay in the EU? None is the answer.

For that simple reason alone, it is highly likely that the UK will get an even worse deal than Norway. It would be in EU interest to show that leaving the EU would end in failure.

For EU to give the UK a far better deal, would be a final nail in the EU's coffin. Every member state would then also want a better deal or leave, meaning the end of the EU project.

Anyone that thinks that EU will give the UK some wonderful deal, that would be far better than Norway's is living on mars.

The simple fact is, if the UK leaves, don't expect a better deal. Other EU countries that are benefiting from the EU, will never sign up to it. It would be an economic/political suicide for those countries.

 

[Tunney]

Lets not forget that most of that 1.26 million are retired people that have gone to live in a sunnier climate, have earned a pot of retirement money in the UK, paid for their foreign property outright and pay for their own medical insurance etc etc.

I've seen wildly different estimates for the number of Brits living in other EU countries. Some estimates are as high as two million.

To say that most are retired people in Spain is probably inaccurate though. Spain is the top destination but France and Ireland are also popular.

 

[estebanrey]

But you won't, because the EU cannot give you one. If they do and the UK is far better off outside the EU, what is the incentive for other EU countries to stay in the EU? None is the answer.

For that simple reason alone, it is highly likely that the UK will get an even worse deal than Norway. It would be in EU interest to show that leaving the EU would end in failure.

For EU to give the UK a far better deal, would be a final nail in the EU's coffin. Every member state would then also want a better deal or leave, meaning the end of the EU project.

Anyone that thinks that EU will give the UK some wonderful deal, that would be far better than Norway's is living on mars.

The simple fact is, if the UK leaves, don't expect a better deal. Other EU countries that are benefiting from the EU, will never sign up to it. It would be an economic/political suicide for those countries.

So what you're saying is even if it hurts their own economies they will be willing to impose bad terms on us because their commitment to the European 'Project' is stronger?

Basically the EU would act like a child who picks up his ball and walks home because he can't play up front.

...and this is the type of club you want to remain in?

 

[Gux]

So what you're saying is even if it hurts their own economies they will be willing to impose bad terms on us because their commitment to the European 'Project' is stronger?

Basically the EU would act like a child who picks up his ball and walks home because he can't play up front.

...and this is the type of club you want to remain in?

Yeah that's exactly what I am saying. The EU breaking up would be a far worse economic result than losing some UK businesses for the EU members. The two cannot be compared in terms of economic impact. EU giving UK a great deal would result in exactly that. The Union would most certainly break up in the near future.

As for your club comment, this is how it is in real world. Isn't UK trying to do the exact same thing you blame EU of trying to do?. Everyone is looking out for their own interest. You can't expect the EU to give you an amazing deal, when it's against their long-term interests.

Its simple common sense, that many posters on this forum don't seem to have.

 

[platypus]

Yeah that's exactly what I am saying. The EU breaking up would be a far worse economic result than losing some UK businesses for the EU members. The two cannot be compared in terms of economic impact. EU giving UK a great deal would result in exactly that. The Union would most certainly break up in the near future.

Not to mention the French and Germans especially will be salivating at the potential to punish the UK banking sector.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I would think the obvious move for the EU would be to make leaving the EU as unappealing as possible. If they didn't and the French/German anti-eu groups used Britain as a good modern example of a strong economy benefiting from leaving the EY, then they would not be far behind following and the EU economy would take a significant hit as it all crumbles.

It seems to me that behaving like a child is in the EU bests interests.

 

[Kenai]

So what you're saying is even if it hurts their own economies they will be willing to impose bad terms on us because their commitment to the European 'Project' is stronger?

Basically the EU would act like a child who picks up his ball and walks home because he can't play up front.

...and this is the type of club you want to remain in?

Versus the UK being the petulant child in Team EU, stomping off because they think they're bigger than the team and then coming back 5 minutes later expecting to play up front straight away and be immune from being subbed off, as if they didn't just stick two fingers up to the rest of the team.

It's easy to twist the petulant child metaphor.

 

[Gux]

Not to mention the French and Germans especially will be salivating at the potential to punish the UK banking sector.

I know. It's amazing how people can get their head turned by some politicians and ignore everything else. General life experience should already taught you by now that everyone is out to get the best for them self.

How can anyone even think that the EU will bend over backwards for UK and self-destruct in the process by giving UK a great deal...I honestly don't know what to say.

What did the EU give to Cameron in the recent negotiations even with the very high risk of UK leaving?

And some people seems to think we will get a better deal, once we leave and the rest of the EU is ****ed off. If you could not get a good deal while being a member, you sure as hell won't get what you want, once you leave.

So this notion of how good a deal we will get is false. We can leave but the most you can expect is a Norway model. Anything more is unrealistic and won't happen.

 

[Freakbro]

Difference being that gets spent in Britain and thus ultimately ends up back in the tax system anyway and not wired back home and going straight out of our economy.

Nobody is leaving the UK for Eastern Europe to go wash cars for cash in hand.

Of course not, but they do the same principle when they go to work in more prosperous economies (economic migrants), like the ME, where you can earn vast sums tax free, and don't worry Estebanrey, the money these guys wire back to blighty more than compensates for the loss of sterling from the cash in hand Romanians

 

[bayo000]

Basically the EU would act like a child who picks up his ball and walks home because he can't play up front.

...and this is the type of club you want to remain in?

No, from their point of view it is the UK that is currently acting like a child and it will be treated like that.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

No, from their point of view it is the UK that is currently acting like a child and it will be treated like that.

Exactly, why would they cater to the UK when doing so would cause them great financial harm and could start the destruction of the EU (not a pretty one at that).

 

[Trig]

Its good that we have incentives to change for the better isn't it?

In one way yes, its not so good that we need them though...

 

[scorza]

No, from their point of view it is the UK that is currently acting like a child and it will be treated like that.

Exactly, why would they cater to the UK when doing so would cause them great financial harm and could start the destruction of the EU (not a pretty one at that).

This is pure scare mongering and just goes to show that the stay campaign have no positive arguments for staying in the EU at all.

The UK has a proud history of standing up to tyranny and I'd certainly hope we'd continue in that vein in the extremely unlikely scenario of a belligerent EU post-Brexit. Even though I have no love at all for the European politicians who run Brussels I don't suppose at all that they would behave in such an inimical manner to both the UK and themselves.

 

[bayo000]

Where are your positive arguments to leave? And please finally back them up with some proper data/ sources other than your Lala land thinking.

It's a pure naivety thinking that the whole world will bend over.

 

[GIBSrUS]

This is pure scare mongering and just goes to show that the stay campaign have no positive arguments for staying in the EU at all

Not really, it highlights vote leave is a 'grass is greener' campaign built around 100% emotive notions of 'fighting tyrany' to secure our industry's future.

 

[scorza]

Where are your positive arguments to leave? And please finally back them up with some proper data/ sources other than your Lala land thinking.

It's a pure naivety thinking that the whole world will bend over.

Where did I say that the whole world will bend over? The world is a tough place and we have to be as well, I think we have plenty of tough, smart people in this country - we just have to let them go into bat for Britain, rather than letting EU officials do it for us.

My positive vision for an independent UK involves being agile, tough, competitive, adaptable to change. We've always been good as a trading nation and we need to trade more with the part of the world that isn't the EU. It is a FACT that we export more trade with Belgium (population 11m, exports £10bn) than we do with India (population 1.27bn, exports £2.3bn) - in a globalised world that just isn't acceptable. We have to start making trade agreements with the rest of the world that work for the UK, to do that we have to leave the EU.

 

[John40]

No, from their point of view it is the UK that is currently acting like a child and it will be treated like that.

Why is it like acting like a child to want to leave the EU ?