Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[bayo000]

Just before the vote the oaps will be told they'll be worse off outside the eu.
They are not stupid the grey voters are in their crosshairs.

The eu is a race to the bottom here where i live in london so many jobs that used to pay a semi decent wage are now ALL minimum wage.

The eu in a nutshell is uk must pay for eu workers kids.

Example eu migrant with 5 kids earning 20 k year gets 35k a year that's right THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS given to them on top of their wages courtesy of the uk tax payer.

Is it any wonder they are all dying to work here when they can get a huge salary for a low end job.

Single people without kids are not as big a problem but when you start introducing kids we give them huge in work top ups.

I wonder how many migrants are claiming for kids that don't even exist.

And yet as a group EU migrants are net contributors, so they do pay for their kids plus some more. I'm sure some abuse the system but that number is low. Problem is with the benefit system, fix that and this problem will go away, not only with migrants but also natives.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Wish I had your crystal ball.

You don't need a crystall ball! Just look at the current situation.

Here is a list of countries who have negotiated zero tariff trade with the EU without conceding things like Switzerland and Norway:



There, nobody at all. Nobody. Even major economic powerhouse economies like the United States. Nobody. Tariff imposition is a normal part of international trade, it is optimism of the highest order to expect us to magically become the first country on the planet to do what you are suggesting we'd do.

 

[scorza]

This is hardly a normal situation, no-one has ever left the EU before. Of course we'll have to give ground on some things - so will the EU, that's the way of negotiations. I just can't see either the UK or the EU wanting "normal" tariffs applied between the two entities, so I think it's quite likely that we'll go on trading with the EU as we do at the moment.

 

[jas72]

This is hardly a normal situation, no-one has ever left the EU before. Of course we'll have to give ground on some things - so will the EU, that's the way of negotiations. I just can't see either the UK or the EU wanting "normal" tariffs applied between the two entities, so I think it's quite likely that we'll go on trading with the EU as we do at the moment.

So you don't think the other members states will want to "punish" (for want of a better word) the UK to avoid a rush to leave by other MS?

 

[jas72]

Just before the vote the oaps will be told they'll be worse off outside the eu.
They are not stupid the grey voters are in their crosshairs.

The eu is a race to the bottom here where i live in london so many jobs that used to pay a semi decent wage are now ALL minimum wage.

The eu in a nutshell is uk must pay for eu workers kids.

Example eu migrant with 5 kids earning 20 k year gets 35k a year that's right THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS given to them on top of their wages courtesy of the uk tax payer.

Is it any wonder they are all dying to work here when they can get a huge salary for a low end job.

Single people without kids are not as big a problem but when you start introducing kids we give them huge in work top ups.

I wonder how many migrants are claiming for kids that don't even exist.

Ok Who's fault is it that the government pays 35K to these people? There is no EU law that I know of forcing the UK to make these payments.

It's the UK that's decided to allow minimum wage topped up with tax credits etc. Change that and the influx becomes a trickle. Oh wait Cameron already has negotiated that part.

The other side of the coin is that the UK has benefitted from some of Eastern Europe's brightest minds without having to pay any of their educational costs.


I'm sure he can get more as other countries populations are also crying out for more nationalism.

 

[robfosters]

So you don't think the other members states will want to "punish" (for want of a better word) the UK to avoid a rush to leave by other MS?

Can they just do what they want then? Surely they haven't just got carte blanche to punish us relentlessly.

 

[Metallifux]

So what is wrong with tariffs, they want to put a tariff on our goods and services, we'll do the same.

 

[robfosters]

It's the UK that's decided to allow minimum wage topped up with tax credits etc. Change that and the influx becomes a trickle. Oh wait Cameron already has negotiated that part.

So we change that to slow down immigration and our own people suffer for it. I'm of the opinion too that EU migrants should not get as much in benefit payments as British citizens. I'm hoping the emergency brake will help this.

 

[scorza]

So you don't think the other members states will want to "punish" (for want of a better word) the UK to avoid a rush to leave by other MS?

No I don't, for one thing they'd be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Secondly I don't think "punishing" member states who leave the EU is going to do anything other than increase resentment among the general population of the EU27. The way to stop other member states leaving is to achieve the fundamental reform that was denied to Cameron - listen to the the EU citizens, understand their frustrations and address them. Brexit would be a great opportunity for the EU to push ahead with it's eventual goal of a federal EU superstate, but it can't be one that bullies member states into "right-think", it's got to be what the people of the EU want.

 

[Danthus]

So you don't think the other members states will want to "punish" (for want of a better word) the UK to avoid a rush to leave by other MS?

Do you think big business would be happy with that?

 

[bayo000]

And you think that same general population would happily stand and watch EU giving away things to country that's not in the EU anymore?
You are seeing things very one sided.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So you don't think the other members states will want to "punish" (for want of a better word) the UK to avoid a rush to leave by other MS?

I don't think they'll want to 'punish' us either, but they will want to treat is in a similar way to how they treat other major world economies. Which seems fair enough? Why should we expect to be a special case?

 

[Mulder]

No, this is what quite a few people, particularly Brexiteers, actually think.

Unbelievable

They are obliged to under the agreement they have. One they can end. We are obliged to under the agreement we have. One we can end. The result in the sense of sovereignty is the same (or less get as non members as they don't get the proportional input members get).

Whichever way you look at it, Norway has a lot more "sovereignty" than we do. The principle of the "Supremacy of EU Law" applies to more areas if you're in the EU as opposed to in the EEA/EFTA. Norway may choose to adhere to more areas of EU law at its own option, but we have lost sovereignty in those areas and should get it back.

The above, combined with the EU being in disarray, means the vast majority people of Iceland, Norway and Switzerland don't want to join the EU. They don't think they've got a bad deal.

And being outside when it comes to eg. fish means that there are tariffs on goods like smoked salmon from Norway, iirc (12% on that, then eg. 400% on cheese from France to Norway). So it's like how we could leave completely and have control... but at a cost.

The fish tariff is an anti-dumping measure because Norway produces so much fish, the cheese tariff the other way around is Norway's retaliation to that tariff. It's an example of how they've negotiated with the EU, just like the Swiss and all their bilateral agreements. Switzerland know they are key in Europe because of their location, right at the heart of the continent. So they negotiate, an example being them wanting to introduce immigration controls despite it being "outlawed" by the EU.

We're a much bigger country, the fifth largest economy in the world, and let's face it; the EU does need us. The last thing it will want to do is completely alienate us in the negotiations. Yes there may be tariffs, but hey i'll just buy my cheese from somewhere else.

The EU is also completely useless at negotiating deals for services anyway, i.e. what the UK does best. And their trade deals also always work better for smaller countries, not us. See here and here.

The EU as a proportion of our trade has also (and will continue to) go down, see here.

Over a 40+year timeframe (which is what we're voting for) we need to be able to negotiate in our best interests as soon as possible, not having to reach compromise with 28+ countries and 500m+ people.

I thought the per capita contribution by Norway was only a bit less than ours. On my phone so feel free to google that.

Per capita it's about half what we currently pay according to the CBI. On a total basis Norway pays about £400m net to the EU per year compared to our £8.5bn. That's a huge difference. And you can't just multiply Norway's per capita total by the UK population, it doesn't work like that.

Can we provide details of an agreement with the EU post Brexit? No. But just because you can't guarantee you'll love a new job doesn't mean you shouldn't go for it. Other countries have successfully negotiated with the EU and we can as well. Their companies are driven by profit and will still want to trade with us, unlike the EU and it's political goals.

Will we then be able to negotiate better deals with the rest of the world that better represent Britain's interest? Yes. Can we remove vast red tape and bureaucracy that even the Government acknowledges is a massive problem? Yes. Will we then be politically tied to an economically stagnating area which will soon be 30+ countries? No.

Vote leave!

 

[McPhee]

So what is wrong with tariffs, they want to put a tariff on our goods and services, we'll do the same.

How many of our exports to Europe would then become cheaper for EU nations to source from other EU nations? That's a dangerous game to play.

 

[kitch9]

So we went from one person's comment to "quite a few people, particularly Brexiteers"?

Lefty logic.

 

[bayo000]

How many of our exports to Europe would then become cheaper for EU nations to source from other EU nations? That's a dangerous game to play.

You can pretty much guarantee that there are countries/companies looking at this oprtunity already.

 

[Glaucus]

So you don't think the other members states will want to "punish" (for want of a better word) the UK to avoid a rush to leave by other MS?

Even ignoring punishment.
The big EU countries, will not want us to get a good deal, as it'll open the flood gates for other countries to leave.

It's delusional to think we can leave and get such deals. No one has such deals and on top of that big reason, there's many more reasons why we wouldn't get such deals.

 

[Metallifux]

How many of our exports to Europe would then become cheaper for EU nations to source from other EU nations? That's a dangerous game to play.

Using that logic as things stand our products must be better than similar products from other EU states. Quality over quantity?

 

[Mr Jack]

Example eu migrant with 5 kids earning 20 k year gets 35k a year that's right THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND POUNDS given to them on top of their wages courtesy of the uk tax payer.

And? This is the exact same reciprocal arrangement under which UK citizens can get the same benefits when we work abroad. This is a huge benefit for us, we gain enormous freedom to live and work in the EU under free movement.

Is it any wonder they are all dying to work here when they can get a huge salary for a low end job.

You seem to be under the false impression that the UK has particularly generous child benefits. It doesn't.

 

[estebanrey]

And? This is the exact same reciprocal arrangement under which UK citizens can get the same benefits when we work abroad. This is a huge benefit for us, we gain enormous freedom to live and work in the EU under free movement.

Whose citizens do you think benefit from this the most/have the most reason to emigrate?

A) The 2nd largest economy in Europe [with the 4th highest average salary] = 64 million people
B) Any of the other 26 poorer countries below us = 364 million people