Channel 4 - What British Muslims Really Think

Small sample and no details on the variety of sample, just a little disclaimer saying the sample was from a variety of Muslims. If this level of detail was used to show anything in the scientific community, it would just serve to discredit whoever took the sample.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Small sample and no details on the variety of sample, just a little disclaimer saying the sample was from a variety of Muslims. If this level of detail was used to show anything in the scientific community, it would just serve to discredit whoever took the sample.
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It's a statistically significant sample. And what's wrong with the variety it is? Are you trying to imply that they've gone to jihadi's anonymous and only surveyed them?
 
Dis86 said:
It's a statistically significant sample. And what's wrong with the variety it is? Are you trying to imply that they've gone to jihadi's anonymous and only surveyed them?
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I am implying that the main selling point behind this statistic is the controversy it will raise. Controversy because the statistics go against most peoples experience with or as a Muslim, suggesting that the statistics are way off. 1000 people is a small sample and could be taken from people who have legally immigrated here from traditionally extreme Muslim countries. There is a number of ways to skew samples like this, the fact they failed to mention what made the sample unbiased but mentioned it was unbiased is suspicious enough.

Do you think the statistic is accurate?

Does it match your experience with Muslims?
 
Didn't they do a similar experiment with University students across UK who were Muslim?

Seeing as these are suppose to be some of the 'brightest' in the country it was quite scary some of the findings. High level thinking homosexuality should be illegal and even punishable by death. Wanting shar'ia law, etc.
 
scorza said:
23% of them want Sharia law. Even if it were just 1% - if you extract that to the official* Muslim population of the UK that's an army of 30,000 - a third of the size of the British army.

*we all know the official figures are bull scat.
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You mean to tell me there are muslims out there who want Sharia law? World's gone crazy.

But seriously, the 'facts' from the survey are being questioned. It's like saying 30% of the population supported the Iraq war therefore 30% of 60m people are warmongers who prefer war and bloodshed. But we know it's not that simple.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
I am implying that the main selling point behind this statistic is the controversy it will raise. Controversy because the statistics go against most peoples experience with or as a Muslim, suggesting that the statistics are way off. 1000 people is a small sample and could be taken from people who have legally immigrated here from traditionally extreme Muslim countries. There is a number of ways to skew samples like this, the fact they failed to mention what made the sample unbiased but mentioned it was unbiased is suspicious enough.

Do you think the statistic is accurate?

Does it match your experience with Muslims?
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Actually yes, yes it does. When I was at university I went out with a Bangladeshi muslim girl. She'd kept it quiet from her family but a cousin of hers saw us together and spread the word. She was threatened with violence and being forced to be sent back to Bangladesh if she didn't end things.
They also tried to threaten me. I ended it for her safety.

I've witnessed first hand abuse directed to a gay friend of mine from a group of young Asian men who one could assume to be muslim.

I also know indirectly people who died on 7/7.
 
Dis86 said:
It's a statistically significant sample. And what's wrong with the variety it is? Are you trying to imply that they've gone to jihadi's anonymous and only surveyed them?
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The number asked may in some circumstances be statistically significant.

However if you ask only those in a certain area, or income/education range it's not going to be statistically accurate nationally.
Without details you can't say for certain.

It's one of the reasons in well conducted polls that are expected to stand up to scrutiny they'll ask a variety of questions about the respodent before asking the poll questions, so they can try and make sure the sample they're using is reflective of the group as a whole.
For example if you're being asked to do a poll by one of the major reputable polling companies for market research they'll likely ask about your education, age, religion and nationality to try and get a balanced sample for your area and if they're doing a poll that is meant to be general, rather than local they'll stop if you're in a group that has already been asked enough and move onto the next person on the list.

So asking people that go to a Mosque that is known to have a lot of the more extreme preachers (say Finsbury Park during the Abu Hmaza days), you'll get a very different answer to if you ask at a lot of other mosques.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Nice anecdotes, they dont seem to match most of other peoples including my own though?

Sounds like your background story was perfect to cultivate bias though!
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Have you asked/ surveyed 'most' other people? What was your sample size? :rolleyes:

Also you asked the guy a question about does it match his personal experience. He gave you what seems like an honest answer and you patronise him with 'nice anecdotes.'

Threads like this get derailed into squabbling because posters like you think your far left, tolerant of everything in the world except intolerance view is gospel.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Nice anecdotes, they dont seem to match most of other peoples including my own though?

Sounds like your background story was perfect to cultivate bias though!
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So you ask for my experience and then say they're invalid? What's the point in that?
What makes your experiences any more pertinent than mine?
 
A newly elected female MP in Iran is to be barred from entering the next parliament apparently because she is alleged to have shaken hands with an unrelated man during a trip abroad.

Minoo Khaleghi, a reformist politician and environmental activist, has denied claims about the handshake, which would be illegal under Iran’s Islamic law.
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...emale-mp-for-shaking-hands-with-unrelated-man

That's why everyone thinks that Islam is a backward and nonsense religion that cannot co exist with the west, especially shariah law.

My issue is that you do not see the so called 'moderate' Muslims standing up in arms against this. They do nothing, but go to mosque and continue as ever. No progress. I thought extremism was only a small percentage, and if it was the majority could stamp it out and make shariah seem like a legacy and fallacy.

But you do not.
 
Raz said:
Wrong. It provides sufficient guidance on defence and warfare within set rules. Given the hostile environment within which Islam was established that absolutely makes sense, to be able to survive surrounded by empires. In any case, time and time again people ignore the Quran in favour of hadith.

The world had changed between the time of the Prophets Moses, Jesus and Muhammad so mankind received 'updated' scripture, but logically we ought to expect another Prophet given the social, technological and scientific advances since then.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/earlyrise_1.shtml

"Conquest

The early rise of Islam (632-700)

The Muslim community spread through the Middle East through conquest, and the resulting growth of the Muslim state provided the ground in which the recently revealed faith could take root and flourish.

The military conquest was inspired by religion, but it was also motivated by greed and politics.

"Men fought for their religion, the prospect of booty and because their friends and fellow tribesmen were also doing it."

Hugh Kennedy, The Armies of the Caliphs: Military and Society in the Early Islamic State, 2001

But this mixture of motives combined to form a process that forged Islamic and Arab ideals and communities into a fast-growing religious and political identity."

Pretty much the same as today, no? :p
 
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Judgeneo said:
There are different levels of belief that I afford different levels of respect to.

I offer no respect to those whose beliefs are demonstrably wrong, such as young earth creationists.
Nor to those whose beliefs cause the lives of certain groups of people to be a living hell, such as those who say gay people are morally corrupt.
Nor to those whose beliefs are simply ludicrous in nature, such as those that believe a convicted con man dug up gold tablets containing the word of God in America - and then lost them.
Nor to those who use religion as an excuse for violence under any circumstance.


The thing is, most religions in their truest form fall under at least one of these categories.

"Progressives" or "moderates" simply chose to ignore the parts of their holy texts which they disagree with. In my view, if you're already throwing out parts of your religion that you find morally unacceptable, why not throw the whole thing out altogether? That, is guaranteed to earn my respect.
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Well put.
 
The Running Man said:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...emale-mp-for-shaking-hands-with-unrelated-man

That's why everyone thinks that Islam is a backward and nonsense religion that cannot co exist with the west, especially shariah law.

My issue is that you do not see the so called 'moderate' Muslims standing up in arms against this. They do nothing, but go to mosque and continue as ever. No progress. I thought extremism was only a small percentage, and if it was the majority could stamp it out and make shariah seem like a legacy and fallacy.

But you do not.
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Yes why are the moderates in the UK not making changes in IRAN.

Why aren't you and the guys who visit your local pub disarming the nukes in America ?
 
Amnesia said:
Yes why are the moderates in the UK not making changes in IRAN.

Why aren't you and the guys who visit your local pub disarming the nukes in America ?
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We see this reply on here time and again when you cannot give a serious answer, not just you but lots of others with your view also.

It is pure bs.
 
Amnesia said:
Have you and others who hold your view disarmed any nukes ?
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If the study had been done on every Muslim in the UK and it came back with similar results you and others will still find a ridiculous reason for it as i stated earlier in the thread, something along the lines of

"oh a lot of them must have filled in the answers wrongly on purpose to create outrage for a laugh"

You always have an answer.
 
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