Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[scorza]

Leave the EU - yes. The UN is an irrelevance.

 

[delta0]

The Swiss are free to tear up the free movement deal/start ignoring it... that automatically kills the rest of the other agreements, though.

The Dutch vote was an internal matter - they were offered a non binding referendum when their Parliament wanted to accept the EU agreement. That's not the EU doing anything wrong, that's the Dutch government and parliament ignoring the result of that vote.

Sounds to me the Dutch will be the next country to get a referendum to leave. That is suicide for their government to even consider ignoring the vote by their people. Completely undemocratic. Really sums the EU up.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Really sums the EU up.

How does it - the EU didn't 'ignore' anything.

 

[delta0]

How does it - the EU didn't 'ignore' anything.

So why didn't the Dutch government implement what the people wanted?

 

[delta0]

Well, it's a democratic body with the powers to make such decisions ignoring a democratic referendum which is legally non binding.

The EU is democratic in a blind undemocratic way. I can see them now in Brussels with their fingers in their ears going "lalalala". They have their agenda and anything that doesn't fit is ignored. As it gets closer this will really hurt countries that don't want to be involved in this.

 

[Mr Jack]

Sounds to me the Dutch will be the next country to get a referendum to leave. That is suicide for their government to even consider ignoring the vote by their people. Completely undemocratic. Really sums the EU up.

Government of member country chooses to ignore non-binding vote; sums EU up.

Who needs logic when you've got Brexit™.

 

[delta0]

Government of member country chooses to ignore non-binding vote; sums EU up.

Who needs logic when you've got Brexit™.

Why hold the vote if the result would be ignored. Seems like they were looking for one answer and they got the wrong one. Where is the democracy?

I wasn't referring to the EU. It's a matter for the Dutch Parliament and Government.

As they are elected by the Dutch people the vote should be enforced and completely respected. That is democracy.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So why didn't the Dutch government implement what the people wanted?

I dunno, ask the Dutch government as it was them that didn't implement something?

 

[Caged]

My biscuit fell into my tea earlier and I had to fish it out with a spoon and then endure all the biscuity tea at the bottom of the mug.

Bloody EU.

 

[Caged]

As they are elected by the Dutch people the vote should be enforced and completely respected. That is democracy.

Enforced by who?

 

[delta0]

I dunno, ask the Dutch government as it was them that didn't implement something?

The issue is their government know the EU is on one track and won't deviate. They are voted in the the Dutch people and have failed. That will just lead them to vote in another party that will cause them to hold a membership referendum.

Enforced by who?

Dutch law. Hence sovereignty.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The issue is their government know the EU is on one track and won't deviate. They are voted in the the Dutch people and have failed. That will just lead them to vote in another party that will cause them to hold a membership referendum.

Can we stop talking about completely irrelevant internal Dutch issues and stop pretending the big bad EU did it? It's meaningless in this thread.

I know you are desperate to believe that the nasty EU ignored the will of the Dutch people but it didn't happen like that so give up and move on.

 

[Caged]

Dutch law. Hence sovereignty.

How do you legally enforce a non-legally binding vote?

And how is this the fault of the EU?

 

[Mr Jack]

Why hold the vote if the result would be ignored. Seems like they were looking for one answer and they got the wrong one. Where is the democracy?

They held the vote because the Dutch system allows for a non-binding referendum to be held if sufficient people ask for it in a petition. The result is not binding on the government of the time. This has nothing to do with the EU.

As they are elected by the Dutch people the vote should be enforced and completely respected. That is democracy.

That is not how the law that the vote was held under works.

 

[delta0]

But the vote was meant to be advisory. The government and parliament are meant to take decisions like the matter the referendum was on. They haven't acted outside their powers or ignored anything legally binding.

Again that really doesn't answer the point of the vote. If the people do not want it then the government must respect this. The Dutch government have been told what the Dutch people want and that should be respected. Instead a foreign "democracy" is deemed superior. Ultimately the Dutch government is elected by the people to represent the people. Ignoring this will bite their government at the next elections.

 

[delta0]

Dutch law hasn't been contravened. Dutch law has worked exactly how it's supposed to... the referendum is legally non binding. The bodies tasked with deciding on the matters in question have made their decision. The scope of the powers of the parliament and government include this matter. What law has been ignored?

The result should become law. That is the point of government. They represent the people. The Dutch will be the next to follow the UK out of the EU.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Again that really doesn't answer the point of the vote. If the people do not want it then the government must respect this. The Dutch government have been told what the Dutch people want and that should be respected. Instead a foreign "democracy" is deemed superior. Ultimately the Dutch government is elected by the people to represent the people. Ignoring this will bite their government at the next elections.

This is a choice the Dutch government made - the EU didn't impose this choice on them.

Whether it was the right or wrong thing to do is completely irrelevant.

 

[Caged]

Your argument seems to be more about how Dutch law functions and absolutely nothing to do with the EU at all.

 

[Mr Jack]

Again that really doesn't answer the point of the vote. If the people do not want it then the government must respect this. The Dutch government have been told what the Dutch people want and that should be respected. Instead a foreign "democracy" is deemed superior. Ultimately the Dutch government is elected by the people to represent the people. Ignoring this will bite their government at the next elections.

74.6% of the Dutch people voted in the general election that elected their government. 32.3% of Dutch people voted in the non-binding referendum about the Ukraine deal. Why is it more democratic for the representative government elected by 74.6% of people in a binding election to be over-ruled by the 32.3% of people who voted in the non-binding referendum?

And, again, how has this anything to do with the EU? The EU can only deal with the positions it receives from national, democratically elected, governments or the directly elected EU parliament. It cannot act on a position in a non-binding vote that the Dutch government rejects and doesn't pass on to the EU. No 'foreign' democracy has over-rules the Dutch government here; they have chosen not to act.

 

[delta0]

This is a choice the Dutch government made - the EU didn't impose this choice on them.

Whether it was the right or wrong thing to do is completely irrelevant.

Why did they make this choice? If the Dutch people didn't want it and their government are supposed to represent them then that is a major issue. This really does boil down the EU. If the Dutch were not in the EU would you seriously think they would just ignore the vote like this?

74.6% of the Dutch people voted in the general election that elected their government. 32.3% of Dutch people voted in the non-binding referendum about the Ukraine deal. Why is it more democratic for the representative government elected by 74.6% of people in a binding election to be over-ruled by the 32.3% of people who voted in the non-binding referendum?

And, again, how has this anything to do with the EU? The EU can only deal with the positions it receives from national, democratically elected, governments or the directly elected EU parliament. It cannot act on a position in a non-binding vote that the Dutch government rejects and doesn't pass on to the EU. No 'foreign' democracy has over-rules the Dutch government here; they have chosen not to act.

It met the validity threshold. Many countries elect governments on similar voting turnouts. So they can block the deal and not have the EU turn around and say no? Didn't think so.