Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

[Mulder]

The EU needs to change. It can no longer be all about more countries, more power, more integration. A lot of people in Europe think the same, hence the increase in nationalist support. There's already a 2 tier Europe with Norway, Switz, Iceland etc and clearly some countries just don't want to continue to move toward a superstate. Those that want federalism can stay at the core, those that don't will negotiate their way out. Greenland's done it, and yes of course ours would be more complex but that's not a reason not to do the right thing.

For me Britain needs to be on the 2nd tier. Being in a trade zone but not with the associated further political integration. We're the 5th largest economy in the world and the EUs largest trading partner. It's a negotiation, concessions will need to be made, but its not unreasonable to think we could get a deal within 2 years. Yes there may be tariffs, but its a global marketplace, i'll just buy non EU wherever possible.

 

[itchy]

The pro EU media and in arguments remind me of......

 

[Monkeynut]

The pro EU media and in arguments remind me of......

That was a horrible episode.

 

[McPhee]

The pro EU media and in arguments remind me of......

Yet 'Project Fear' is in fact a tool being deployed by the pro-brexit side as a way to dismiss any facts, figures or opinions that contradict the Brexit argument. It is simply a tool for avoiding reasoned debate, much like when the pro-EU side resorts to cries of 'racist' or 'fascist' when discussing immigration.

Just cast my vote in the poll. After reflecting on my earlier post I've gone with 'Leave'.

 

[Marmot]

Eight former US Treasury Secretaries including George Schultz, Robert Rubin, Larry Summers and Timothy Geithner warn that leaving EU would be a "risky bet" for the UK.

Well I wasn't convinced before, but if LARRY SUMMERS (the guy who put a stranglehold on derivative regulation and who many believe to be a significant driving force behind the crash of 2008) thinks the UK is better of in the EU, I'm absolutely voting to leave.

What they really mean is the US is better off if the UK stays in.

 

[scorza]

They're all part of the US establishment which supports the foreign policy of Britain in the EU because they believe (incorrectly as it turns out) that Britain can influence the EU on their behalf. They don't care a jot about the British economy and the livelihoods of British people.

 

[Freakbro]

Most informed post I've read in this thread so far.

LOL

Why doesn't that surprise me you believe thep02

Now I know I can just discount your posts, sorry thep02 but your flag is definitely nailed to the wrong side of the CT flagpole

 

[oulton]

I read somewhere that you need to register to vote even if you are still on the electoral register.

I am registered to vote, only takes 5 minutes on the you gov website

 

[Burnsy2023]

Yet 'Project Fear' is in fact a tool being deployed by the pro-brexit side as a way to dismiss any facts, figures or opinions that contradict the Brexit argument.

The problem is that most facts or figures of the impact of the Brexit - from either side - have the accuracy of a finger in the air. They're easily dismisses by the opposition because there is no certainty over what happens if we did look to leave. I think that needs to be recognised.

That's one of the only real facts to be relied on here.

There is a bit more certainty over what the economy would look like if it stayed the same though.

 

[Mr Jack]

The UK wouldn't be "places at the back of the queue". The two year part comes from the point of notifying the EU of the want to leave and then finally leaving. However when Greenland left the EU they extended this to 3 years so that they could secure free trade deals.

Here's the text:

Article 50

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.​

So the negotiations can take whatever time they like but after two years we're dumped out of the EU treaties unless we get unanimous agreement to continue while negotiations continue. I don't think the end of the treaties would end negotiations; it's in both parties interests to continue trying to establish a deal.

 

[Freakbro]

I read somewhere that you need to register to vote even if you are still on the electoral register.

Really?

I didn't know this...I just assumed it's done automatically if you are on the electoral register

Edit : Hmm, I found this

Am I registered to vote?

Nobody is automatically registered. The system changed in 2014 in a bid to reduce fraud, doing away with whole-household registrations so that every person must now sign up individually. Most people who were already registered were transferred to the new system, but a minority were not. Letters were sent out to inform people whether or not they were on the register but if you are not sure, you can contact your local electoral registration office to find out. You will also need to re-register if you have moved house.

 

[a1ex2001]

So the negotiations can take whatever time they like but after two years we're dumped out of the EU treaties unless we get unanimous agreement to continue while negotiations continue. I don't think the end of the treaties would end negotiations; it's in both parties interests to continue trying to establish a deal.

That could well be the sticking point, to get unanimous agreement we would need to keep everyone on side and I can't think of a single occasion when we have been even close to that clever in negotiations with Europe!

 

[Tunney]

Really?

I didn't know this...I just assumed it's done automatically if you are on the electoral register

Edit : Hmm, I found this

A clever ploy by the Conservatives to discourage young people - who normally don't vote for them - from voting. Only problem is that they forgot that they need young voters to win the upcoming EU referendum.

 

[[TW]Fox]

On a semi related note does anyone know how the postal vote process works? It seems unclear when you will actually receive your ballot paper. I get the impression from some things I read that you only receive it a few days before the referendum which surely defeats the object entirely?

 

[platypus]

Most informed post I've read in this thread so far.

.

 

[a1ex2001]

On a semi related note does anyone know how the postal vote process works? It seems unclear when you will actually receive your ballot paper. I get the impression from some things I read that you only receive it a few days before the referendum which surely defeats the object entirely?

Given that the deadline to register is only 2 weeks before the vote I would be surprised if you receive them more than a week before the vote which as you point out could be pretty pointless if your going away or if you live abroad!

Whole thing seems a bit of a badly organised shouting match for some rich public school boys from where I'm sat! The real shame is it is totally over shadowing the local council elections that are due shortly when voters can actually have a direct say on how things that effect them every day are done!

 

[[TW]Fox]

Given that the deadline to register is only 2 weeks before the vote I would be surprised if you receive them more than a week before the vote which as you point out could be pretty pointless if your going away or if you live abroad!

The irony of many who value the EU being unable to vote because they happen to have traveled to the EU in the week or two before the short notice referendum was called. Well it would be irony if it wasn't so pathetic.

 

[scorza]

German and Dutch armed force to "merge". Czech Republic has entered talks to bring its army under German control. Will the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force be allowed to exist independently or will they be subsumed into EU Army?

Sources:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-forces-merge-bringing-eu-army-a-step-closer/

http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/!u...zMq8GUUj9Nq0jTb6H_Opq-vpeNF6356bDuYQ6i-8zUHY/ (Dodgy google translation in spoiler).

Spoiler

Federal Minister of Defence Ursula von der Leyen and its Dutch counterpart Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert have today agreed in Amsterdam aboard the Dutch supply and support ship Karel Doorman, with their forces even more closely together.

This should be done especially in the area of ​​the two navies, as well as the land forces will soon. The two countries thus a sign towards a closer integration of European armed forces.

For the German Navy is the memorandum of understanding the two ministers of the start of a gradual integration of the Sea Battalion of the German Navy in the Royal Netherlands Navy. It is also the entry to the ability to build secure and long-range maritime transport of the Bundeswehr with the Netherlands as the main partner.

In addition, the two ministers agreed a mutual toothing in the land forces down to unit level. The Netherlands 43. Mechanized Brigade of the German 1st Panzer Division is assumed. Around 3,000 Dutch soldiers are then be part of the 1st Armored Division. In return, a German tank battalion is part of the Dutch Brigade. This mixed association with about 400 soldiers to be stationed in Lohheide / Bergen military training area in Lower Saxony.

"This collaboration shows the extraordinary depth of the partnership with the Netherlands, but especially large and mutual trust. Dutch and German live, work, train and exercise together in the future, they become a fused unity ", said the Minister.

Future missions of these forces remain subject to review by the relevant national institutions and relevant national procedures. The excellent cooperation between the German and Dutch armed forces is considered specific example of a close common European security and defense policy. It began with the formation of the First German-Netherlands Corps in 1995. Another highlight was the integration of the Dutch 11th Luchtmobielen Brigade (11th Airmobile Brigade) in the German Rapid Forces Division (DSK) in the year, 2014.

http://www.sz-online.de/nachrichten...gen-marinestreitkraefte-zusammen-3315076.html

Spoiler

Germany and the Netherlands want to agree on Thursday an even closer cooperation between their armed forces. The plans before according to the government in The Hague, gradually incorporate the currently based in Eckernförde Sea Battalion of the German Navy in the Dutch Navy. The Bundeswehr will allowed to use the ultramodern supply ship 'Karel Doorman' of the Dutch in return. This can transport as Leopard 2 battle tanks.

"This is the path to a European defense union," said German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen (CDU) in advance of the "Rheinische Post". For signing the cooperation agreement, the minister and her Dutch colleague Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert are expected at noon on the 205 meter long "Karel Doorman" in the port of Amsterdam.

Then part of the Leyen and Hennis-Plasschaert on a two-day meeting of EU defense ministers in the city. In this it should go, among other things, the ongoing EU military missions in countries such as Mali and the Central African Republic.

From Bundeswehr circles it was said that the integration of the German Sea Battalion in the Dutch navy would have no relocation of some 800 soldiers to follow. Plans are especially common training and exercises.

The German association consists among other things of a Minentaucher- and reconnaissance company. His responsibilities extend Marine details of rescue and evacuation operations and anti-terrorist operations to the protection of sea lanes and ports.

Model for the new cooperation project is the successful collaboration of other branches of the armed forces. Since 2014, the German Rapid Forces Division is (DSK) for training and practice subordinated the 11th Airmobile Brigade of the Netherlands. Last year was also agreed to integrate the 43rd Mechanised Brigade of the Netherlands in the German 1st Panzer Division. A German tank battalion is in turn part of the Dutch Brigade. For over 20 years there has also been the German-Netherlands Corps staff headquarters in Münster.

In all previous collaborations was agreed that troops operations continue to be subject to checks by the national institutions and procedures. The Sea Battalion of the German Navy could thus be involved, for example, only after approval of the Bundestag on a foreign deployment of the Dutch Navy.

 

[[TW]Fox]

German and Dutch armed force to "merge". Czech Republic has entered talks to bring its army under German control. Will the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force be allowed to exist independently

Of course they will, as you well know.

or will they be subsumed into EU Army?

Of course they won't, as you well know.

The choices of individual nation states are just that - choices of individual nation states. If Germany want merge armed forces with the Netherlands, then they can do just that. If we don't, then we can do just that, too.

keep posting the Breitbart articles though.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Literately nothing to do with the UK and there is nothing the EU can do to make the UK rid itself of its armed forces. The most that could happen is a proposal to join a small UK force with another.

What you are suggesting is closer to fear mongering than ANYTHING else on this thread.