Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (April Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 452 45.0%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 553 55.0%

  • Total voters
    1,005
  • Poll closed .
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LOL

Why doesn't that surprise me you believe thep02 :D:D:D

Now I know I can just discount your posts, sorry thep02 but your flag is definitely nailed to the wrong side of the CT flagpole :p

As if I gaf what anyone thinks of my 4 sentence condensing of my views on the eu, the one hope the UK has is to be an HONEST financial centre at the far end of the One Belt One Road Chinese project, at the moment NO foreign country thinks our financial sector is honest. In my opinion Boris Johnson could push through the massive changes that need pushing through the city for it to regain the confidence of the world as a fair free trade banking sector.

The petro dollar is dying and those riding on its coat tail will go down with it.
 
[TW]Fox;29409924 said:
Of course they will, as you well know.



Of course they won't, as you well know.

The choices of individual nation states are just that - choices of individual nation states. If Germany want merge armed forces with the Netherlands, then they can do just that. If we don't, then we can do just that, too.

Wish I had your crystal ball.

When we joined the EEC in 1975 I bet there were people saying "of course we won't give away control of our borders, of course we'll be able to negotiate trade deals for ourselves".

[TW]Fox;29409924 said:
keep posting the Breitbart articles though.

I will do, they're practically the only serious pro-Brexit media outlet at the moment.
 
I find it funny how people even think we have a chance of leaving.... With Scotlands vote alone with sway it to "IN".... Not even taking into account Wales vote which will also be "IN".

Pointless thread haha :D
 
[TFU] Thegoon84;29409989 said:
I find it funny how people even think we have a chance of leaving.... With Scotlands vote alone with sway it to "IN".... Not even taking into account Wales vote which will also be "IN".

Pointless thread haha :D

Scotland and Wales are far from unified on this issue, a significant amount will vote to remain. England seems to tend towards exit, and so does NI, so its far from a done deal.
 
German and Dutch armed force to "merge". Czech Republic has entered talks to bring its army under German control. Will the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force be allowed to exist independently or will they be subsumed into EU Army?

Project Fear.
 
[TFU] Thegoon84;29409989 said:
I find it funny how people even think we have a chance of leaving.... With Scotlands vote alone with sway it to "IN".... Not even taking into account Wales vote which will also be "IN".

Pointless thread haha :D

You think this is a done deal, you should head over to the Trump thread!

Still a few flag wavers going strong. That thread will have some great comedy value when elections come round.
 
[TFU] Thegoon84;29409989 said:
I find it funny how people even think we have a chance of leaving.... With Scotlands vote alone with sway it to "IN".... Not even taking into account Wales vote which will also be "IN".

Pointless thread haha :D

Population of Scotland & Wales = 8.3 Million
Population of England = 53 Million

Scotland and Welsh votes, whilst important and possibly a deciding factor, can't "sway" anything on their own.
 
German and Dutch armed force to "merge". Czech Republic has entered talks to bring its army under German control. Will the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force be allowed to exist independently or will they be subsumed into EU Army?

I suspect long term they won't exist as they do today, our armed forces are very expensive to maintain and shrink year on year we will soon get to the point where even closer integration with our allies is essential to us maintaining a functioning armed service I'm sure this will start with integration of supply chains and logistics but beyond that the possibility of integrations of fighting forces cannot be rules out. We never go to war alone these days so it would actually make our units more effective in combat if we were more closely integrated with our allies. I vey much doubt in my life time though we will see any symbolic signing over of our armed forces to the EU as that is a pretty laughable concept!
 
German and Dutch armed force to "merge". Czech Republic has entered talks to bring its army under German control. Will the British Army, Royal Navy and Royal Air Force be allowed to exist independently or will they be subsumed into EU Army?

Sources:

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-forces-merge-bringing-eu-army-a-step-closer/

http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/!u...zMq8GUUj9Nq0jTb6H_Opq-vpeNF6356bDuYQ6i-8zUHY/ (Dodgy google translation in spoiler).

Federal Minister of Defence Ursula von der Leyen and its Dutch counterpart Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert have today agreed in Amsterdam aboard the Dutch supply and support ship Karel Doorman, with their forces even more closely together.

This should be done especially in the area of ​​the two navies, as well as the land forces will soon. The two countries thus a sign towards a closer integration of European armed forces.

For the German Navy is the memorandum of understanding the two ministers of the start of a gradual integration of the Sea Battalion of the German Navy in the Royal Netherlands Navy. It is also the entry to the ability to build secure and long-range maritime transport of the Bundeswehr with the Netherlands as the main partner.

In addition, the two ministers agreed a mutual toothing in the land forces down to unit level. The Netherlands 43. Mechanized Brigade of the German 1st Panzer Division is assumed. Around 3,000 Dutch soldiers are then be part of the 1st Armored Division. In return, a German tank battalion is part of the Dutch Brigade. This mixed association with about 400 soldiers to be stationed in Lohheide / Bergen military training area in Lower Saxony.

"This collaboration shows the extraordinary depth of the partnership with the Netherlands, but especially large and mutual trust. Dutch and German live, work, train and exercise together in the future, they become a fused unity ", said the Minister.

Future missions of these forces remain subject to review by the relevant national institutions and relevant national procedures. The excellent cooperation between the German and Dutch armed forces is considered specific example of a close common European security and defense policy. It began with the formation of the First German-Netherlands Corps in 1995. Another highlight was the integration of the Dutch 11th Luchtmobielen Brigade (11th Airmobile Brigade) in the German Rapid Forces Division (DSK) in the year, 2014.

http://www.sz-online.de/nachrichten...gen-marinestreitkraefte-zusammen-3315076.html

Germany and the Netherlands want to agree on Thursday an even closer cooperation between their armed forces. The plans before according to the government in The Hague, gradually incorporate the currently based in Eckernförde Sea Battalion of the German Navy in the Dutch Navy. The Bundeswehr will allowed to use the ultramodern supply ship 'Karel Doorman' of the Dutch in return. This can transport as Leopard 2 battle tanks.

"This is the path to a European defense union," said German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen (CDU) in advance of the "Rheinische Post". For signing the cooperation agreement, the minister and her Dutch colleague Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert are expected at noon on the 205 meter long "Karel Doorman" in the port of Amsterdam.

Then part of the Leyen and Hennis-Plasschaert on a two-day meeting of EU defense ministers in the city. In this it should go, among other things, the ongoing EU military missions in countries such as Mali and the Central African Republic.

From Bundeswehr circles it was said that the integration of the German Sea Battalion in the Dutch navy would have no relocation of some 800 soldiers to follow. Plans are especially common training and exercises.

The German association consists among other things of a Minentaucher- and reconnaissance company. His responsibilities extend Marine details of rescue and evacuation operations and anti-terrorist operations to the protection of sea lanes and ports.

Model for the new cooperation project is the successful collaboration of other branches of the armed forces. Since 2014, the German Rapid Forces Division is (DSK) for training and practice subordinated the 11th Airmobile Brigade of the Netherlands. Last year was also agreed to integrate the 43rd Mechanised Brigade of the Netherlands in the German 1st Panzer Division. A German tank battalion is in turn part of the Dutch Brigade. For over 20 years there has also been the German-Netherlands Corps staff headquarters in Münster.

In all previous collaborations was agreed that troops operations continue to be subject to checks by the national institutions and procedures. The Sea Battalion of the German Navy could thus be involved, for example, only after approval of the Bundestag on a foreign deployment of the Dutch Navy.

Are you trying to make us afraid?
 
Are you trying to make us afraid?

I'm trying to point out (obviously too subtly for the usual suspects) that this notion of a vote to stay in the EU to preserve the status quo does not hold. The EU will continue with its agenda for "ever closer union" with a likely outcome being the creation of an EU army in the not-too-distant future with consequences for our Armed Forces. Hell, at least some of the remainians are honest and admit this will happen but claim it's a good thing. Why won't the mainstream media be honest and report this important development?
 
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I'm trying to point out (obviously too subtly for the usual suspects) that this notion of a vote to stay in the EU to preserve the status quo does not hold. The EU will continue with its agenda for "ever closer union" with a likely outcome being the creation of an EU army in the not-too-distant future with consequences for our Armed Forces. Hell, at least some of the remainians are honest and admit this will happen but claim it's a good thing. Why won't the mainstream media be honest and report this important development?

There has been no development the creation of an EU army has not been advanced by individual member states agreeing to closer military integration these units will not be fighting under an EU flag or being sent to war by Brussels. The EU will not be sending British troops to war or stopping us doing so anytime soon so don't worry, they are much more likely to be constrained by lack of Money to fill the fuel tanks or pay for the bullets!
 
The debate still feels like it boils down to those who see the EU as 'them' and those who see the EU as 'us'. Dictatorship vs membership.
 
I'm trying to point out (obviously too subtly for the usual suspects) that this notion of a vote to stay in the EU to preserve the status quo does not hold. The EU will continue with its agenda for "ever closer union" with a likely outcome being the creation of an EU army in the not-too-distant future with consequences for our Armed Forces. Hell, at least some of the remainians are honest and admit this will happen but claim it's a good thing. Why won't the mainstream media be honest and report this important development?

Just googled and looked through Czech news sites (I speak Czech) and I can't see anything about that. I'm not saying it's not happening, have you got any other source for that claim?
 
There has been no development the creation of an EU army has not been advanced by individual member states agreeing to closer military integration these units will not be fighting under an EU flag or being sent to war by Brussels. The EU will not be sending British troops to war or stopping us doing so anytime soon so don't worry, they are much more likely to be constrained by lack of Money to fill the fuel tanks or pay for the bullets!

How do you know that? Got a source?
 
.... Hell, at least some of the remainians are honest and admit this will happen but claim it's a good thing. Why won't the mainstream media be honest and report this important development?
Because the idiot know-it-alls trying to make themselves look good on TV, or write "smart" articles in papers, are so busy focussed on the minutiae of one or two specific leaves, on a single branch of a single large tree that they failed to notice the question was actually about the forest. Hell, they haven't yet even noticed they're in a forest.

In my opinion, this referendum is going to be the only one we get for a generation or two, at least. Or rather, the only in/out referendum. There may be others on specific points. But it may well be the last in/out referendum ever.

Therefore, the real issue isn't as simple as immigration, borders or even trade, and certainly not short-term trade benefits or disadvantages, important as they are. It's about the fundamental nature of our long-term future.

Look not at what the EU is, but what it is to become. The end goal is, and always was, a federal european superstate. It is, and always was, designed to end intra-Europe conflict, and set us up as a power block to rival the US, and more recently, China. The logic of that, by the way, is of an EU containing Russia but I'm not sure anyone sees that happening any time soon. But then, who predicted the Berlin Wall being torn down that way?

But whatever, the goal if the EU is a federal superstate. Some steps are obvious. Common external borders? Check. Remove internal borders? Mainly check, apart from those pesky Brits, and Norway. Common currency? Check for most, some still underway. Common courts? Check? Common passports? Check. Common foreign diplomatic service and embassies? Not quite complete, but check. Common fiscal policy? Hmmmm. Getting there, but not quite check yet. Common constitution and anthem? Almost checked that, but the pesky people voted it down in referenda. So, drop the anthem, rewrite the rest a little, stop calling it a constitution and call it a Lisbon 'treaty' and .... check. We'll do the song some other time, probably by the back door. Common police force? Tricky one. But at least ISIS are helpfully providing great motivation for "enhanced cooperation and intelligence sharing". Thoughtful, of them, that. So not yet check, but underway. But, on the upside, the European Arrest Warrant slid past with barely a whimper, so check on that.

Armed forces? Ooh, emotive one. But, they've been working together for years, embedding people in each other's various forces, though to be fair, so has the US. Plans for putting French fighters on two Brit super-carriers for which they can't afford enough planes? Genius. And stage one of check.


That's what this referendum is about. In or out of what the EU is evolving into, not what it is right now.

Forget petty arguments about a possible tariff war on French cheese. Do we want to be a part of a European superstate? If so, vote remain and stop being the awkward slightly unwelcome, reluctant guest at the party. Or do we want to be a small, independent island off the edge of a superstate? If so, vote leave.

Since the UK joined the Common Market, or arguably even before that with the ECSC, we've been a reluctant, unconvinced participant. What we wanted was a common market, a free-trade nirvana. But it's not on the table. It's all or nothing. A region of a European superstate with a sort-of single market included. This only works properly, however, if we all regard ourselves as European, not French, German, British, etc. In the very long term, that might happen, but short of a couple of generations, not a prayer.

Or, a small independent island nation, trading with that state, but running our own affairs.

There are advantages to both, and neither is perfect. The choice, ultimately, is a philosophical one.
 
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