The millions of people who voted for a Conservative government in our democratic nation.
Poll: Doctors strike tomorrow, do you support it?
- Thread starter Dr House
- Start date
The millions of people who voted for a Conservative government in our democratic nation.
Associate
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Yes, because doctors clock on and off and get pay calculated on that.
The reality is that you are assigned to work 8-5. The reality is that you are working 7:30 until 6:30 and you get no payment for extra hours. There is only pay for working extra shifts or pre agreed late finishes. Your statement just shows how little you know of the situation.
We'll see if people really do quit their jobs, I highly suspect the vast majority won't and if they do, well we'll all be ****** for a while
It's not a case of 'if', it's a case of 'when' - most hospital rotas at a hospital I'm based at (tertiary level centre) have SHO and registrar gaps, to the point of being 50% down on a department. One in particular didn't have a registrar on an intensive care specialty (when it was supposed to be an SHO, reg and 2 consultants).
We'll all be ****** for a while? Oh of course we will, and the blame will be placed firmly on those doctors still working!!!
This isn't looking at the big picture. You'll find physicians are the most selfless group of people (as a whole, there are some horrible people working of course!). Many are staying in this job because they know what will happen if they don't. Like the above comment. There is zero use in saying 'then go and leave', because the NHS would fail overnight. And then people would get hurt.
This is the bit that annoys me and shows it is directly about money. We've seen these 'low' rates even the capped ones are at, and most (all?) people I know would chop their right arm off to be paid that for a shift.....well, maybe not today as they wouldn't get treated
£23 as a junior doctor working the on call shift in a large hospital. In many places, this means the junior doctor is solely responsible for up to 10 wards of patients overnight. That is a huge amount of responsibility. If they need help, they can call the on call reg or consultant at home, but they are making decisions that are literally life and death. And, of course, don't forget - a wrong decision/mistake could mean the end of your CAREER.
After tax and national insurance, I wouldn't do it.
Do you have any idea how many complaints are received due to overseas doctor? I'm not necessarily saying their clinical knowledge is of a lesser standard, but they can be worlds apart when it comes to society and culture. So many complaints to a few Indian doctors I know because they treat women with less respect than male patients. That's just the tip of the iceberg!!
I hope they're happy with the increased disparity that has been achieved. I wonder if any of those supporting the doctors voted them in. Would be quite ironic.
I've spoken to quite a few doctors that had voted Conservatives. They are amazed how badly they ****** up. I don't think anyone could have seen how much the Tories could mess things up
We vote for parties, not policies. Even those who vote Tory are perfectly entitled to stand against aspects of their tenure.
Frankly, it's pretty basic to think that a party winning an election provides carte blanche for running the country.
It's not really about resources, they'll be at the hospital at weekends just the same as during the week. Without adequate provision of doctors and weekend staff the resources are already stretched too thin. By having staff there at the weekend means things will get done which currently aren't.
The part of my post you quoted is in relation to the doctor not being present in the hospital on weekends so medication isn't prescribed. If the doctor is working on the weekend then medication gets prescribed.
There is a genuine issue with doctors not being available at weekends. There is a genuine risk to patient health because of a lack of doctors at the weekend.
How can the new contract mean they will work less hours and yet cover extra days all without increasing the number of doctors.
How does that work?
Soldato
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..but as we know "overnight" is paid a premium so it's not £23k, but £34,500 (a big difference)
My mistake - I meant £23 an hour as a locum
edit - not my mistake, you seem to have added the 'k' in my quote?
Soldato
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He didn't put £23K! You added that in.
That could be £23 per hour as an additional (bank) or "locum" shift hourly rate before NI and taxes etc. Nice try! 
Edit: beaten to it!
Our trust is desperate for shifts and I personally know of quite few long term locum staff who have packed up and left leaving core medical specialties without any SHO cover in the evening or nights.
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Soldato
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He didn't put £23K! You added that in.
Edit: beaten to it!
I added it in because I'd assumed he was talking about the famous "£23k" starting salary being quoted on the news and as he didn't say "p/h" and there was nothing to suggest he was talking about an hourly rate, I assumed an omission has been made.
I also assumed he was referring to the £23k as £23 per hour a week is around £48k a year, almost twice the average wage' so doesn't really go with the 'woe is me' content that follows???
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This is locum rates - so no job security, no guaranteed hours etc. This is like bringing an agency chef in - you'll pay a big premium to fill your rota gaps. Same with most industries.
My point is, the £23/hour for this job uncertainty, emergency cover is not the well paid, £48k/yr job you're insinuating. This locum work is being turned down by the VAST majority of doctors for being insulting. If you're on minimum wage or a lowly paid job, of course you'll have your mindset - £23/hour sounds loads!! But until you realise what you have to do for that, which then gets the usual deductions taken out etc, and you've been working all night, dealing with dozens of sick patients, away from your family for not much more than a tenner an hour.
But, this is just locum work. I'd like to see you get 25% of your annual salary removed and you not complain about it
Soldato
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Locum premiums are huge in any industry, i would say they are relatively smaller in medicine compared to most industries where locum work is the norm (except maybe teaching but tbh, how hard is it to whack a film on and read a book )
)
Soldato
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Small correction, we vote for a person who we believe will best represent the needs of our constituency in Parliament, The elected MPs will then divide and form government or opposition based on aligned beliefs/philosophies, we don't have a party political system as such, it's the underlying cornerstone of our shamocracy
Back on topic.
Biggest picket lines out the front of the hospital today that I've seen so far this dispute and they are getting plenty of support from patients entering the hospital and passing drivers and even some of the local residents have been bringing them food and hot drinks so no apparent decline in support from the public in this part of Brum.
Caporegime
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Absolutely.
Hospitals are dependant on locums, so rather than addressing this issue directly Hunt has capped locum pay and worsened working conditions for substantive staff. So now you have no locums to cover gaps, your substantive staff are shoring up half empty rotas and being asked to work more weekends, recruitment will drop and people are leaving. It's not going to last long but hell its cheap!
Soldato
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Good luck to these guys! You would have though, along with emergency services etc, that these are the most valuable members of society and thus deserve to be paid properly.
Personally, my concern is more that they do so many hours. The last thing I'd want in hospital is a doctor that's been on their feet for 4 days on and off, at the end of the third or fourth 8 hour shift.
Personally, my concern is more that they do so many hours. The last thing I'd want in hospital is a doctor that's been on their feet for 4 days on and off, at the end of the third or fourth 8 hour shift.