You do but being in that profession you are aware and Contract with what you do. That an teachers - while still underpaid imo/ime - earn relatively well and certainly hearing double (and rightly so) of the NMW. So two households drawing in circa £50k may not feel the percentage based impact of pay in proportion to someone poor(er) for their holidays
High Court Ruling on School Holidays
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You do but being in that profession you are aware and Contract with what you do. That an teachers - while still underpaid imo/ime - earn relatively well and certainly hearing double (and rightly so) of the NMW. So two households drawing in circa £50k may not feel the percentage based impact of pay in proportion to someone poor(er) for their holidays
See jimjamuks comment above. That axiom carries more weight than any of the carp disagreement over minutiae we are having.
Btw I work with some learners who have extreme high needs (compared to mainstream). Be lucky if their attendance ever exceeds 80%. There are resolute amongst them who never miss a session of course but the bulk well.
Prime example: Today 75% of my learners have not arrived. A combination of a) bad parenting earlier in life and a teenage I cba attitude.
Just to add, I have found that many of the better performing learners I often have are the exact kids that have had holidays during term time. My cohort of learners is only an 1/4 or 1/3 of average school class sizes. I would hazard if teachers were surveyed the results may be enlightening as anecdotally the headteachers I have dealt with are in fact very sympathetic to the situation/circumstance.
Let us not forget this fine has also been used to abuse people as well, so in that context it is not fit for what it actually is. I could theoretically call my kids in sick next week. The LA by absolute law have to prove they were not. That is the theory.
Another twist i'll add to this thread, i work in a seasonal job, we are busiest during school holidays therefore, it's not often i can take time off during school holidays,I've managed a week this year in the last week in July somehow, but it's the first time i've been able to take any time off during holidays (apart from xmas which was booked before i started working where i am and we went to New Zealand to get married for 6 weeks).
My point is that normally, i don't get the choice to take my children on holiday during their school holidays, so they normally miss out on family bonding holidays etc unless i can take them out of school during term time. However, like teachers complaining they can't take term time off, its my choice to do the job i do, but when i get paid what i do to do it, i'm not going to change my job when what i earn gives my family a decent comfortable life even if it means i have to work when my kids are off school, i would however, like the choice to take my kids on holiday in times that i am allowed time off work without being punished for it, after all, what's more important, creating and maintaining a healthy family bond, or education? Answer, they are both as important as each other, without both, you have neither! Compromise is king.
My point is that normally, i don't get the choice to take my children on holiday during their school holidays, so they normally miss out on family bonding holidays etc unless i can take them out of school during term time. However, like teachers complaining they can't take term time off, its my choice to do the job i do, but when i get paid what i do to do it, i'm not going to change my job when what i earn gives my family a decent comfortable life even if it means i have to work when my kids are off school, i would however, like the choice to take my kids on holiday in times that i am allowed time off work without being punished for it, after all, what's more important, creating and maintaining a healthy family bond, or education? Answer, they are both as important as each other, without both, you have neither! Compromise is king.
No this is the point - those students with the attitude to do well don't need to be spoon fed. They will catch it up through self study / copying friends notes etc. There's that part of term closest to the exams when there are recaps / mock exams etc - that's when students realise they haven't got the grasp of a certain subject and pick it up. You can turn up every day of the academic year but if you cant be bothered then your grades are only going one way.
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
They didn't and it affected results, hence the new legislation.
Yes, and parents know that having kids = expensive holidays outside term time.
And in your circumstances, you'd likely have holidays approved - the current legislation allows for your very scenario.
There are a multitude of reasons why holidays will be approved during term time, but, and quite rightly imho, "because it's cheaper" is not one of those reasons.
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http://www.bstubbs.co.uk/gcse.htm
They have been improving year on year since way before fines were introduced.
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
That's cohort average results and also doesn't look sat primary school results.
If you look at individual child results, those who had holidays during term time experienced a measurable negative impact on their results.
I went on Holiday in Primary school, it had absolutely no affect on anything in all honesty. If Children are struggling, have poor attendance records or it's around exam time clearly they shouldn't be taken out of school. Other wise having 1 week off during term time isn't shouldn't be a big deal imo.
This is what the "you can only go on holiday once every three years if your kids have A* at GCSE aged 18months and only if you have a good job because you worked hard" crowd don't get or are conveniently ignoring it.
If a child is working well, has excellent attendance and that the time away does not conflict with exams or interfere with kids learning about their GCSE exams. What seriously is the problem?
If its such a problem and that days missed are such a big problem, change teacher training days to a week before the start of the year ir have them in during half terms. Note: I do not condone this and disagree with this principle you have no leg to stand on regarding term time holidays and if you agree then really there is actually nothing lost.
That looks like checkmate to me
Cohort or not, the trend is that GCSE results on average have improved year on year long before the fines came in, and haven't improved any more as such as a result of fines being introduced.
I agree with Raoh, why should teacher training days be taken during term time if time off for students is disrupted if they take time off? Why not move teacher training days to the first day of half term on each term? It has to work both ways, teachers get a generous amount of holidays as it is, surely a week less over a year won't harm, not as much as the kids education being missed anyway!
And primary education?? I moved schools three times during my primary school years and still flew through my 11+ exam. There were no SATS when i was at school, it's down to the student ultimately, if they want to work hard then they will, if they don't, they won't, that's down to parenting as well as education, as i said early, you need both family bonding and education, without one, both suffer.
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[TW]Fox;29501739 said:
I did a week a few times when I was at school, true. But just a couple of days either side makes a massive difference to holiday and flight costs. Just look at bank holiday weekends. Go a day or two early and/or late and you get almost a week for significantly less flight cost than flying out for the three days.
Either way the point is it should be (and was) a negotiation between school and parents. If the kid is doing fine in school, their attendance is good and it's not a busy time then the schools should be able to grant time off if wanted. The new law removed that and just tried to set a blanks ban on all holiday time in term time. The judge pointed out that's rubbish and now the government are almost certainly now going to try and remove that negotiation ability of schools.
That said if most schools are going to be academy's and free schools (or did the gov back out of that now?) the local authorities and any amended law should t be relevant?
Deleted member 66701
Deleted member 66701
Yeah, the government backed out of it. And in my experience, Academies are way more draconian due to their lack of accountability.
When I was at school the general situation before I left or when I got back was "work through pages X to y". Then they would mark them. This whole argument about huge amounts of time "catching kids up" isn't entirely true is it. If the kid is struggling in classes however then perhaps the parents shouldn't be taking them out of school.
Again, that's for the parents and teachers to decide either way. If a parent is determined to take a struggling kid out of school for a week then that one week of missed education is probably minor in comparison to the other issues the parents are causing their child at home (missed/no help with homework/reading/spelling etc)?
The other thing that gets me, and shows in this thread form several posters, is that schools are trying to become more and more like factories. Pushing for the highest grades above all else. Screw other things that children can learn in childhood outside school, screw having time off as a child. It should all be about formal education above all else. More exams, longer hours, more homework. As long as the grades keep going up we don't seem to care about children actually having childhoods any more.
Inset days aren't taken in term time. Children are in school for 190 days, teachers for 195. So if the training days were taken during half term then the summer holiday would start a week earlier.
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I know. Those terrible schools pushing education like that! It must be so awful to have to go and study...
Deleted member 66701
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But the whole class is not in - so you can plan around that. It's when one or two children are off that it becomes an issue.
Do I really have to explain this?
My kids school and my wifes school all put the inset days at the start or end of term. Do you think they just pop them in on a random Tuesday in the middle of term?
No, the government are trying to make schools like factories. It's an important distinction to make. Unless you think that schools have a say in policy decisions at government level.
It must be a long time since you were at school. Schools, especially primary schools, have changed drastically over the last 5 years. The curriculum is now so rigid and condensed that there simply isn't the flexibility or spare timetabling available to "play catch up".
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I am sure you are just here trolling now.
Education in a school is not the only way to get an education. Otherwise you would never ever have left school. Schools take kids on outdoor trips (that should according to you be illegal and the parents should be fined) and even overseas cultural experiences (again that according to you should be illegal) and then also the teachers have training days (again according to you should be illegal).
What are you going to cook up next running man with your moribund arguments? There are more parents in favor of term time holidays than against. That means majority rules. But again I would think you have a problem with that as well, especially considering mist of us low achieving, dead end job occupying scroungers are just hoping to save a quid or three to have a safe, loving and valuable experience
To mess with the hiked prices during 6 weeks hols is just to move the 6 weeks to a different month, maybe April to June instead of July Sep. So other countries pay for expensive holidays and UK familys dont hehe. Wont happen but be funny if it did.
But for teacher training days the whole amount of parents need to plan. No need to explain your argument has been debunked.
Of course not, they could pop up on a Tuesday and parents might still have to arrange childcare. Again your point is null.
There we have it. The Government are turning schools into exam factories. Nothing more, nothing less. I still think jimjamuks point holds more relevance than any disagreement than we could have as that is in effect the most important aspect of this entire debate kids who want to learn will work hard and study hard, those who bobble along will carry on and those who don't give a hoot will stay like that come what may.
At that point really anything we agree or disagree with is irrespective of that main fact: Kids will be kids
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