*** The Official Elite: Dangerous Thread ***

NeilFawcett said:
Alas that makes no sense?
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You might not agree with it but it does make sense.
The Engineers are not suppose to give you a "win", but an alternative, hopefully more suited to your play style.

If there is a suggestion that certain crafting/enhancements are significantly better (rather than just different), I'd suggest it's only going to make the game worse.
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As opposed to a fully A kitted ship versus a fresh off the shipyard production line? Elite is not about balance, it's about choice. Engineers will just give more of it without allowing everybody to instantly jump on the latest over powered build and bear in mind that just because somebody has an engineered module does not make it better, there are downsides and compromises have to be taken in 90% of cases.

And if you're right, and new metas pop up that module X crafted with Y is the new "must have", (eg: previously rail guns on silent running craft), then why only allow individuals who have the will power to grind to have access to them?
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So it doesn't become Elite : Meta 2.1 #moduleftw!!1 and become dull as dishwater, how is that not obvious?

Far better to let people have (failrly) easy access to what are hopefully fun variations to weapons, and let people enjoy using them, than simply forcing people to go through hours and hours of grind for each and every thing they want to play with.
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Who is forcing it on you? Nobody but yourself. Hours and hours? based on what? You're making assumptions on outdated information, nobody knows as it stands how long or how much effort is required as it was tweaked and removed after the initial phase of beta.
 
Dano said:
As opposed to a fully A kitted ship versus a fresh off the shipyard production line? Elite is not about balance, it's about choice. Engineers will just give more of it without allowing everybody to instantly jump on the latest over powered build and bear in mind that just because somebody has an engineered module does not make it better, there are downsides and compromises have to be taken in 90% of cases.
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Make your mind up... Is it about choice or not?

Is it about making a module (significantly) better or not? You're stating one second, it has to be restricted before "allowing everybody to instantly jump on the latest over powered build," but then state the opposite with, "bear in mind that just because somebody has an engineered module does not make it better."

So if crafted module are (hopefully) not a path to "win" (which is surely the way it has to be?), but instead a path to variety, why heavily restrict that variety? Especially when most players, most of the time, are fighting NPCs...

Dano said:
Who is forcing it on you? Nobody but yourself. Hours and hours? based on what? You're making assumptions on outdated information, nobody knows as it stands how long or how much effort is required as it was tweaked and removed after the initial phase of beta.
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True... You're absolutely right, and I hope it's minimal... But this is Sandro we're talking about, so I predict a bucket of grind for each level, at each engineer. Fingers cross I'm wrong...

As regards who is forcing me... If there is significant grind involved with opening up crafting levels, then clearly it's the game, not me forcing it. If all I want is to taylor a drive to give me 20% better jump range, I have two choice. Don't do the grind, or do... The game design is forcing that (questionable) choice on me.


I'll tell you what I predict. If we had balancing issues before, and an ever growing schism between PvE and PVP outfitting, that's all set to get worse IMHO. Infact, I bet the current PvP tournaments being run, when 2.1 arrives end up banning crafted modules in an attempt to overcome the balancing issues.


ps: On a concluding note, I'll point out I think Engineers is a huge questionable investment in development time, which like Powerplay, creates a questionable addition to the game at the cost of development time for numerous areas far more deserving IMHO.
 
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NeilFawcett said:
Make your mind up... Is it about choice or not?
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Where have I said it isn't? You're reading stuff into things I've not said, certainly not purposely. Of course it's about choice, doesn't mean that you should have everything available to choose from the outset or for free.

Is it about making a module (significantly) better or not? You're stating one second, it has to be restricted before "allowing everybody to instantly jump on the latest over powered build," but then state the opposite with, "bear in mind that just because somebody has an engineered module does not make it better."
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They're not mutually exclusive are they? It's not black or white.

So if crafted module are (hopefully) not a path to "win" (which is surely the way it has to be?), but instead a path to variety, why heavily restrict that variety? Especially when most players, most of the time, are fighting NPCs...
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Because the world isn't perfect and there will always be a single setup that for whatever reason is overpowered, be that by a little or a lot you can guarantee that everybody and their dog will be running it if given the choice. Might just as well have nothing but A rated Anaconda's.

True... You're absolutely right, and I hope it's minimal... But this is Sandro we're talking about, so I predict a bucket of grind for each level, at each engineer. Fingers cross I'm wrong...
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I hope there is a decent amount of work involved.

As regards who is forcing me... If there is significant grind involved with opening up crafting levels, then clearly it's the game, not me forcing it. If all I want is to taylor a drive to give me 20% better jump range, I have two choice. Don't do the grind, or do... The game design is forcing that (questionable) choice on me.
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No, it's your choice to want the drive, your choice to work for it, you do not need it.

I'll tell you what I predict. If we had balancing issues before, and an ever growing schism between PvE and PVP outfitting, that's all set to get worse IMHO. Infact, I bet the current PvP tournaments being run, when 2.1 arrives end up banning crafted modules in an attempt to overcome the balancing issues.
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Balance? what balance? This is Elite not WoW.

ps: On a concluding note, I'll point out I think Engineers is a huge questionable investment in development time, which like Powerplay, creates a questionable addition to the game at the cost of development time for numerous areas far more deserving IMHO.
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And I'll disagree, I think it's a great addition, but that's cool, we can't all like the same or think the same :)
 
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Dano>
Agreed on some points. Unfortunately, I'm going to go with the point that frankly, crafting and modifying of ships is a "nice to have", and personally, I'd rather have seen FD release stuff like multi-crew ships, atmospheric landings, or the ability to go first person mode as higher priority items.

On a more positive note, personally I'm MUCH more interested in the AI changes, and they look mega promising.



Oh, and it's UP. Just finished the upgrade, loading now.
 
Nothing unfortunate about it other than you not getting what you prefer, everybody is entitled to their opinion :)

My upgrade is taking forever :(
 
Done an hour n a bit.

Taken three data missions, all local ish. Interdicted by a drop ship on one, shields took a battering in first pass and required 2 shield cell banks to knock them out. They were dangerous, so fair comment.

Last mission I can not complete :( I have arrived at the system and will not show as completed. Gone 12 Ly's away and then returned and still not showing completed. Nothing in the mission that says anything different, same as the other two. So will give it some time.

Also mission board takes longer to load.

Otherwise, no issues as yet
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Dano>
Agreed on some points. Unfortunately, I'm going to go with the point that frankly, crafting and modifying of ships is a "nice to have", and personally, I'd rather have seen FD release stuff like multi-crew ships, atmospheric landings, or the ability to go first person mode as higher priority items.
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RE the development time for crafting and engineers and the like. I'd have preferred to have seen the time instead going into the following sort of stuff:-
1 - Piracy reputation/bases/missions.
2 - Exploration content.
3 - Convoy escort missions and the like.
4 - NPC crew. NPC wingmen for hire (see 3).
5 - Wing missions (see 3 & 4).
6 - Station blockade mechanics.
7 - Missions/tasks piloting a fighter for a Capital ship.
8 - Missions/tasks piloting a fighter for a platform/station (see 6).
9 - Improved community goal/powerplay tasks. (see 3 & 6 & 7 & 8).

Basically beefing up the depth of the game and the variety of the game, rather than just kicking around what's basically already there... ie: I can now have a 15% more powerful beam laser, that heals Wingmen? Great! But I'm still doing the same stuff with it as I've been doing for over 18 months!

I'd prefer to be undertaking a more complex/intersting activity with Wing of friends ideally, even without a 15% more powerful beam laser...
 
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The forums are grim reading about NPC's. Seems CZ might be best avoided as well as hazardous RES.
I am going to see how I get on today but @13 million rebuy for my Python, it will only take 3 deaths for me to give up as the NPC's do indeed have all the whistles and bells and the interdictions are as thick and fast as before....
 
Strudders said:
The forums are grim reading about NPC's. Seems CZ might be best avoided as well as hazardous RES.
I am going to see how I get on today but @13 million rebuy for my Python, it will only take 3 deaths for me to give up as the NPC's do indeed have all the whistles and bells and the interdictions are as thick and fast as before....
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I had a quick go last night, and was interdicted by NPCs and my shield was down in a flash (even with an SCB used!), and my hull was disappearing at an alarming rate before I ran off!

I looked into the one upgrade I'm interested in - FSD upgrade - and the engineer requires 1t of meta-alloy which I assume you get from a barnacle (the game gave seemingly no hint/help for this though). Problem is, there's seemingly no barnacles left (in 2.1)... :rolleyes:

Still can't wait to see how much grind is involved in ranking up with this particular engineer to allow me to then play their Wheel Of Fortune to simply increase my jump range by a few light years....



Mr_Sukebe said:
Neil>
Yep, really good list and agreed, I'd have rather had that lot too. Still, it's at least going in the right direction.
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That depends on your POV I guess... I don't see more and more questionable stuff I'm not really interested in, at the expense of stuff I would really like to see, as the "right direction" :(

The next two updates we're getting multi-crew, to carry on doing the same stuff, and fighters, to carry on doing the same stuff... Hmmm...
 
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Neil,

The crafting I could happily do without. I went to see my 4 engineers, and also have the one who wants meta alloys. At least I know what's needed now, so I can go pull in some more cash.

What appears to be a good thing is the change to AI. Whilst it's being called that, sounds like they've done more than just change the capabilities of NPCs. My understanding is that anarchy systems are now dangerous, whilst patrolled systems are now policed. To me, that's a really good thing. Assuming that plays out, then I see that as a good step forward. I was sick of being interdicted every 5 mins, regardless of what type of system I was in, by some suicidal NPC in a sidewinder, when I'm flying a fully kitted out Python.

Have to say, I love your suggestion on wings. Would love to have elements that a feel a bit like what happened back in the days of Xwing, i.e. guard a convoy over multiple light years.
 
I had a quick go last night, tried out the new mission system, picked up a couple courier misions in my Type 7, reached the destination system, immediatly got interdicted by an Asp my shields went in seconds and before i could jump out (using both sets of countermeasures) my hull was reduced to 14% got closer to the planet and had yet another interdiction by the same ship and got instantly blown up.

I hope that this doesn't keep happening otherwise i might stop playing!
 
MorleySA said:
I had a quick go last night, tried out the new mission system, picked up a couple courier misions in my Type 7, reached the destination system, immediatly got interdicted by an Asp my shields went in seconds and before i could jump out (using both sets of countermeasures) my hull was reduced to 14% got closer to the planet and had yet another interdiction by the same ship and got instantly blown up.

I hope that this doesn't keep happening otherwise i might stop playing!
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There's a bit of talk on the official forums along these lines...

Now, let's consider this... Did the Asp ask for cargo? Did you try to give any?
 
NeilFawcett said:
There's a bit of talk on the official forums along these lines...

Now, let's consider this... Did the Asp ask for cargo? Did you try to give any?
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He didn't give me much chance, he opened fire as soon as i'd been interdicted.

I haven't been on the offical forums yet.....might read them when on my lunch break!
 
Logged on last night, did some mining in my Annie.

Got scanned by an imp courier, left me alone when i had 0 in cargo, as soon as I had 1 piece of ore he just went to town, ripped my shields down in seconds lol. I had to jump out at 10% hull, not fun mining I can say.
 
Played for a couple of hours this morning. Had to abandon the data mission from last night has it refused to be completed at the correct station....:rolleyes: Been to see an engineer, not that he has anything for me, just to have a mooch around. That was cool.

Got interdicted, fired on from the start, lost shields without being able to get around... (missiles) ran away. Picked up point defense. That is now an essential.... Went to a RES to have a mooch there, picked off a deadly Anaconda after it's shields were down by three other ships, still managed to drop mine even though I was spamming class 6 A shield boosters....
Went and licked my wounds.

Returned to the RES, picked on a Deadly FDL and was kick in the arse until help arrived... I am not a super elite combat person (I am ranked deadly) , however the difference in capabilities of NPC's now is very unbalanced as I have not seen any wanted NPC's below deadly..... and the one Eagle I did pick off who was master.... 600 bounty...

Please don't come back and say "well that is how it should be, dangerous" or "about time as pay to win was wrong" I have spent 100's of hours to get the ship and equipment I now have. It has been rendered pretty much useless over night. Any new players to the game will be slaughtered if they even attempt to take anything on and yet the high rate of interdiction's still happen....

I was really looking forward to getting back into this. Yep, NPC's totally needed buffing as it was boring at RES simply farming and NPC interdiction's where a simple win. NPC wings where more of a challenge however and many occasions I have run away. I dread to think what a wing would do now....

However, it is a step to far IMO. It has stopped being fun. I know some will not agree, however people see things and play in different ways...
 
Strudders said:
I was really looking forward to getting back into this. Yep, NPC's totally needed buffing as it was boring at RES simply farming and NPC interdiction's where a simple win. NPC wings where more of a challenge however and many occasions I have run away. I dread to think what a wing would do now....

However, it is a step to far IMO. It has stopped being fun. I know some will not agree, however people see things and play in different ways...
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I agree with you, i had stopped playing. I'd hoped that this would get me playing again, I'll try again and see what it's like tonight. It's never fun loosing millions like i did last night.
 
Well I'm 40,000LY from the populated bubble and heading away so it seems I'm missing out on all the fun :p

Plenty of complaints on the forums about the NPCs, usually precipitating 'git gud' responses from the resident top gunners. My personal feeling is a small ship, eg an Adder, even if ranked Elite should not be stripping the shields of an eg A-rated Python in seconds no matter what armaments the smaller ship is carrying (op damage modifier perhaps?) but I can only go off what I've read over there.
 
so i went out to Kuhn to see whats needed for the engineer, and 3 soontill relics are needed. The place where you could get them before no longer sells so many cmdrs scratching their heads (and complaining... a lot).

I agree that is should not be easy.. and over time we will discover what to do, but i think its right that it is not an instant get.
 
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