PCN advice needed please

Firefox35

Firefox35

Firefox35

Associate
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
850
Location
UK
A couple of weeks ago my car was parked on a Metro Inn car park , the driver never left the car and was there around 35 minutes.

The car park was empty, they did not see any signs but have now received a PCN demanding £60 if paid within 14 days and £100 if paid after.

Do I have to pay this?

www.ce-service.co.uk are who issued the ticket.

Thanks
 
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fightback forums are your friend, you'll get better advice there.

It is not wise any more to ignore any parking 'invoices', but you can fight them, if it was a pay and dislay car park and you parked there for 35 minutes, whether you remained in the car or not, you still parked there.
 
wez130 said:
fightback forums are your friend, you'll get better advice there.

It is not wise any more to ignore any parking 'invoices', but you can fight them, if it was a pay and dislay car park and you parked there for 35 minutes, whether you remained in the car or not, you still parked there.
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I am in a very similar situation to you and I am currently mid appeal. Made an initial appeal, got a letter asking for further clarification, just replied today. Mine was for a duration of less than 20mins when I didn't leave the car, making calls / texts in an unused portion of the car park.
 
I don't get this? You were using their car park to park in or out of car doesn't make any difference because you're still taking up the space that you're supposed to pay for?
 
In my case, I didn't even pull up in a marked bay. I pulled up in a waste ground portion of the park which was in itself 90% empty on the day, I did not prevent any paying customers from using the facilities. I figured doing what I did was better than parking up on the main highway causing an obstruction to others. I have offered to pay for an hours usage on the grounds of this being an error of judgement.
 
First thing to note is that this is not a PCN.

Secondly, wait for a letter to arrive. Ignore whatever they left on your windscreen.

As Arthur said just do that in your appeal, but they will deny the appeal. Remember to ask for a POPLA number in your appeal and appeal to them as it will cost them money. Get draft letters from MSE.

Firefox35 said:
It's a travel lodge not a pay and display car park, just checked and there is a small sign that says authorised vehicles only. It is NOT a pay and display car park.

It's not like I left the car there and went off shopping, £60 to eat a sandwich on an empty car park seems very harsh.
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People will tell you that private parking charges can't be ignored anymore. However, the case that resulted in people claiming this applies to a very specific context

It is where in a retail environment someone parking has been given free parking time and has overstayed. The court ruled that as the person parking got free parking i.e. they got in something in return for accepting the contract, a contract was formed. The contract has to be clearly displayed.

However, you have not accepted any such contract with the parking operator. Since you got nothing in return for such a contract, no one could reasonably believe you were accepting a completely one-sided contract. Therefore, the parking operator has to show financial loss which you are able to work out at the pay and display rates if they exist (which they don't for you). So they then would have to show consequential losses, which they won't be able to.
 
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muon said:
First thing to note is that this is not a PCN.

Secondly, wait for a letter to arrive. Ignore whatever they left on your windscreen.

As Arthur said just do that in your appeal, but they will deny the appeal. Remember to ask for a POPLA number in your appeal and appeal to them as it will cost them money. Get draft letters from MSE.



People will tell you that private parking charges can't be ignored anymore. However, the case that resulted in people claiming this applies to a very specific context

It is where in a retail environment someone parking has been given free parking time and has overstayed. The court ruled that as the person parking got free parking i.e. they got in something in return for accepting the contract, a contract was formed. The contract has to be clearly displayed.

However, you have not accepted any such contract with the parking operator. Since you got nothing in return for such a contract, no one could reasonably believe you were accepting a completely one-sided contract. Therefore, the parking operator has to show financial loss which you are able to work out at the pay and display rates if they exist (which they don't for you). So they then would have to show consequential losses, which they won't be able to.
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Hi firstly thank you all for the replies, sorry to appear stupid, there was no ticket placed on my car (as I never left it) I received the letter yesterday, they have given me 14 days to pay the £60 otherwise it goes up to £100.

The letter was not sent recorded so how can they prove I received it? If I appeal I am accepting I have received said letter.
 
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If I was in your position, I'd just ignore it.

What you need to also understand is that this isn't a fine. The people sending you this have no authority to punish you.

They can only claim for any losses you have caused them or if you aren't paying them something you promised to pay. You definitely didn't do the latter, and they won't be able to show the former.
 
muon said:
They can only claim for any losses you have caused them or if you aren't paying them something you promised to pay. You definitely didn't do the latter, and they won't be able to show the former.
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That's incorrect, and they don't have to show a loss.
 
Liquidfox said:
That's incorrect, and they don't have to show a loss.
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Yes they do. Any civil compensation claim via county courts requires evidence of costs/loss.

Otherwise you'd just make up a number. How about £1m. How does the judge decide that £1m is the correct number? How do I defend against this made up number with no evidence?
 
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I suggest you don't ignore it as your right to appeal would expire. Just use a templated reply from one of the many forums that offer them, wait for the appeal to be denied, send another template to POPLA. Win.
 
Mr-White said:
I suggest you don't ignore it as your right to appeal would expire. Just use a templated reply from one of the many forums that offer them, wait for the appeal to be denied, send another template to POPLA. Win.
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Actually POPLA decide in favour of the parking operator half the time. Even though the reality is that nearly all of the tickets are unenforceable. Right to appeal expires for POPLA, yes.

However, you will still have your day in court where they would have to demonstrate you agreed to a contract (with all the requirements of a contract) or show financial loss. In the OPs case this will literally never happen. There is no contract and quantifiable losses are zero or next to nothing.

This is entirely a bluff. The website even makes a completely false statement.

http://www.ce-service.co.uk/

Is my Parking Ticket Enforceable?
On 4th November 2015 the UK Supreme Court removed any doubts over the legality and enforceability of Parking Charge Notices issued for parking on private land.
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That is a lie. It did no such thing.

The link they give said as much refers to a very specific case where a contract was formed since there was ample opportunity to view and understand the contract as well as consideration existing for the party entering the contract. This doesn't apply to the OP in anyway whatsoever.
 
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Ok I have looked again this morning using Google Maps (Metro Inn Walsall) and there is a pay and display meter.
Should I pay the fine and move on?

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
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Firefox35 said:
It's a travel lodge not a pay and display car park, just checked and there is a small sign that says authorised vehicles only. It is NOT a pay and display car park.

It's not like I left the car there and went off shopping, £60 to eat a sandwich on an empty car park seems very harsh.
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so it is a pay and display then, just pay the fine. You made a mistake but you have literally got no leg to stand on unless the sign was covered.
 
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