Brexit thread - what happens next

[Sagalout]

The SNP seem to be trapped in a bit of a paradox. Nicola Sturgeon is stamping her feet because Scotland voted to remain as part of the union and is now being forced out, so now she wants another referendum to take Scotland out of the other union that Scotland also voted to remain in.

So, the message is clear... don't be dragging Scotland out of a union if there has been a democratic vote in favour of staying, unless it's Nicola who's doing the dragging against the country's will, in which case it's perfectly OK to keep holding a referendum until the idiots vote the way she thinks they should.

Yea. You've got heaps of credibility here, Nicola.

The Scottish previously voted on the premise of being part of the U.K. And EU Union. In fact it was part of the 'better in' campaign to stress that if they left the UK there was no guarantee they would be accepted into the EU as an independent country. That has been completely turned on its head now.

And also, as I said earlier, 'turkeys voting for Xmas'

http://gu.com/p/4myfh/fb

 

[platypus]

That's the problem, I simply don't trust the EU and have no faith that they wouldn't have found a way to sneak it in through the back door.

I'm pretty surprised that you'd trust a UK government more than the EU, but we'll put that down to us disagreeing amicably.

Defence wasn't the only reason, just the main one. I do not wish for ever closer EU integration and I suspected that, regardless of what DC said, it would happen anyway and there's little we could do about that. I do believe that, given the right political leadership, the UK can thrive outside of the EU. There will always be some form of relationship with the EU though and it's foolish to think we could continue to operate without one.

Unfortunately I have no idea where the right political leadership is going to come from, have you?

I actually believe that the immigration and NHS arguments were in very poor taste and designed simply to divert the poor from the real issues. I didn't subscribe to them for the record.

In poor taste indeed, not to mention downright lies.

 

[Nitefly]

We are both going to have to agree to disagree.

Same old circular arguments. We will see the same posters moaning in a few years time about irrelevant drivel and ignoring and and all positives.

We can now trade and create our own deals without an unelected elite having to give it the nod. That's the best start we could have ever hoped for.

Another thread in which I will be abstaining from replying to now. Not worth my time.

At present it IS factually bad. How it will recover, if it does, is up for debate and speculation.

 

[Rroff]

Sajid javis getting murdered on Marr. No emergency budget, no recession to come. All a load of scaremongering rubbish.

Bit too early to say that.

 

[delta0]

Were you able to post how many times the emergency immigration hand brake was applied by the way? The other thread got somewhat unwieldy so I might have missed the evidence you provided.

I did respond. I'm actually not anti-immigration so I'm not actually that interested in applying any brake. The EEA legally are able to if they wish. With that power I would use it to block people without jobs and with a criminal record. However this is a tiny portion of people but are ones that will be a significant burden on the UK. The next step for the UK is to negotiate the details. The position the UK is going to be unique. An associated partnership as Germany said yesterday.

 

[platypus]

I did respond. I'm actually not anti-immigration so I'm not actually that interested in applying any brake. The EEA legally are able to if they wish. With that power I would use it to block people without jobs and with a criminal record. However this is a tiny portion of people. The next step for the UK is to negotiate the details. The position the UK is going to be unique. An associated partnership as Germany said yesterday.

Ok I'll take your word for it.

 

[thenewoc]

It takes time to change an economy's diverse mix but perhaps we could begin with some tax breaks to businesses making stuff and perhaps a cut in VAT. I'm sure in time companies will adapt to take advantage of new export opportunities once we can agree some deals further afield than just the EU.

 

[Azza]

IDS basically saying that Leave never promised anything with the '£350m' it was just one of the possibilities for the NHS to get that money and they never said it would go to the NHS and it's up to the government to decide.

...


Marr slaps up a poster from Leave saying the money will go to the NHS.

 

[Fuzz]

Saw Peter hitchens on the news this morning and he's right. If there is anything else to come out of this, it is a massive shake up to the political parties we currently have.
I cant understand a government in power that is split doen the middle like it has been.
That was massive lacking in confidence shown to the public when half your camp defects to the leave side.

Having said that, there was a hitchens speech I watched in my research running up to this election which I really liked. Some proper gritty stuff being talked about there.
Its an hour long so put the toast and coffee on first!

 

[platypus]

IDS basically saying that Leave never promised anything with the '£350m' it was just one of the possibilities for the NHS to get that money and they never said it would go to the NHS and it's up to the government to decide.

...


Marr slaps up a poster from Leave saying the money will go to the NHS.

This poster?




I would say thats fairly unambiguous...

 

[Marmot]

IDS basically saying that Leave never promised anything with the '£350m' it was just one of the possibilities for the NHS to get that money and they never said it would go to the NHS and it's up to the government to decide.

...


Marr slaps up a poster from Leave saying the money will go to the NHS.

The poster says 'let's' which is a suggestion. What is your point?

The government has the final say so he's absolutely right.

 

[The Mad Rapper]

I'm pretty surprised that you'd trust a UK government more than the EU, but we'll put that down to us disagreeing amicably.

Of course.

Unfortunately I have no idea where the right political leadership is going to come from, have you?

Hopefully the right candidates can be found for the right roles. Boris seems to be favourite at the moment, but others seem to believe Stephen Crabb could be a good option; from a working class single parent family and apparently a respected politician.

In poor taste indeed, not to mention downright lies.

As someone else posted earlier, both campaigns were badly ran. I am not going to defend Leave; I can't. I wasn't happy with it myself...

 

[estebanrey]

The poster says 'let's' which is a suggestion.

Let's is a contraction of "let us" which is a request.

 

[mid_gen]

I have a feeling Boris is going to attempt a renegotiation of membership rather than leave. He's certainly made a point of leaving that option open.

 

[wildman]

Cameron has done the country the biggest favour he could have possibly done by not issuing article 50. We are not committed to leaving the EU. We can then negotiate a exit while still being fully paid up members. While we are members we can hold the EU back. They want us gone, we want to go, we can agree to fair terms. If we issue notice to leave, the EU can wait out the notice period and cut us lose which will hurt bad and will certainly discourage other countries from following suit.

no, exit negotiations will not start untill Article 50 is triggered, everything up to that point is hot air and non binding. The UK by slowing down the triggering of article 50 just puts themselves in a worse position because the market uncertainty will be striping billions off our bottom line and the rest of the EU which in turn will make the negotiations a lot more painful as the UK will get less of what it wants and likely have to accept what ever bone gets tossed over the hedge.

People are kidding themselves if they think the UK will be holding the rest of the EU to ransom on this one. The EU will stabilise it's remaining membership, probably take a few hits which they will sweeten for the other countries through the ECB and watch UK Plc burn itself up. This country is going to be a wreck for at least the next generation by which time the EU will have gotten stronger and the UK will be knokcing ion their door again cap in hand when yorkshire, wales, cornwall and all the other regions regenerated through EU money realise that the ultra right wing conservative government they have had for the last 20 + years doesn't give a crap about them.

Real poverty is about to hit the shores of the UK and people are going to understand what hardship really is, and not the kind of Jeremy Kyle hardship they have been used to for the last 20 years.

 

[ColdAsIce]

Seeing lots of screen grabs of Twitter / Facebook posts of Europeans being told they will be evicted and sent home. Along with a bunch of verbal abuse admittedly mostly from the North of England and Wales. Absolutely disgusting if true.

Living in Edinburgh I really had no idea there was such a strong hate towards legitamite immigrants in parts of England.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

The Scottish previously voted on the premise of being part of the U.K. And EU Union. In fact it was part of the 'better in' campaign to stress that if they left the UK there was no guarantee they would be accepted into the EU as an independent country. That has been completely turned on its head now.

And also, as I said earlier, 'turkeys voting for Xmas'

http://gu.com/p/4myfh/fb

And if Scotland had voted to leave the UK, they would have done so on the premise of a lucrative oil fund propping up the economy. How did that turn out?

The SNP can't keep banging the independence drum every time they see a perceived chink in the armour. If this justifies another Scottish independence referendum then we might as well have another EU referendum if the NHS doesn't get it's £350 million a week.... at which point Sturgeon can have a referendum to vote us all back together again?

 

[Azza]

This poster?




I would say thats fairly unambiguous...

Same wording different graphic though.

The poster says 'let's' which is a suggestion. What is your point?

The government has the final say so he's absolutely right.

Not in this situation as there is no question being asked for a suggestion to be made.

 

[Rroff]

no, exit negotiations will not start untill Article 50 is triggered, everything up to that point is hot air and non binding. The UK by slowing down the triggering of article 50 just puts themselves in a worse position because the market uncertainty will be striping billions off our bottom line and the rest of the EU which in turn will make the negotiations a lot more painful as the UK will get less of what it wants and likely have to accept what ever bone gets tossed over the hedge.

People are kidding themselves if they think the UK will be holding the rest of the EU to ransom on this one. The EU will stabilise it's remaining membership, probably take a few hits which they will sweeten for the other countries through the ECB and watch UK Plc burn itself up. This country is going to be a wreck for at least the next generation by which time the EU will have gotten stronger and the UK will be knokcing ion their door again cap in hand when yorkshire, wales, cornwall and all the other regions regenerated through EU money realise that the ultra right wing conservative government they have had for the last 20 + years doesn't give a crap about them.

Real poverty is about to hit the shores of the UK and people are going to understand what hardship really is, and not the kind of Jeremy Kyle hardship they have been used to for the last 20 years.

IMO the EU will take a fairly substantial knock as well - we've put a lot of money and generated ways for other countries to make a lot of money within the EU - Germany's economy while outwardly very healthy beneath the surface has a lot of leveraging which is fine on one hand but on the other hand wouldn't take much to bring the whole lot down and quite a bit of that is through London. (I'm guessing there are some very nervous people right now who can't be 100% certain it won't happen).

Cautiously I think you are potentially right about the pains some are going to feel over the next generation if this goes the way many vocal leave people think they want.

 

[Tunney]

We can now trade and create our own deals without an unelected elite having to give it the nod. That's the best start we could have ever hoped for.

When you say 'an unelected elite', I'm guessing that you're not talking about the House of Lords?