Brexit thread - what happens next

Caged · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:28

V F said:
This they took our jerbs phrase is becoming so pathetic. There was someone on TV the other day saying the owner of a bus company has Polish people lined up if any English person disputes pay rises. The owner will happily get rid of them for lower pay. Does that mean this is all lies and they're racists?

No

The issue in that example is the bus company owner seeking to exploit people, decades of anti-union rhetoric, and squeezing employment rights (e.g the two year unfair dismissal rule). If the Polish weren't there ready to take the place of any sacked workers then it doesn't automatically follow that the bus company owner would suddenly start treating their staff better.

Making situations like your example about immigration shifts the focus away from the employer and allows them to get away with it.

Judgeneo · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:29

fornowagain said:
Racist Leave? Have a look at @mgkaleem twitter account to see what a Leave guy is getting. There's plenty to go around.

Dang...

Simon · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:34

jl10000 said:
Your statement is an insult to British craftsmanship from woodworking to heavy industry. Cheap labour, cheap results.

History suggests otherwise

Simon · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:34

Demon said:
No, the british empire was built on enforced labour, far far worse and in although there was some cheap contract labour, its a completely different scenario I think.

Yeh. We didn't have to force them this time

V F · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:36

Caged said:
No

The issue in that example is the bus company owner seeking to exploit people, decades of anti-union rhetoric, and squeezing employment rights (e.g the two year unfair dismissal rule). If the Polish weren't there ready to take the place of any sacked workers then it doesn't automatically follow that the bus company owner would suddenly start treating their staff better.

Making situations like your example about immigration shifts the focus away from the employer and allows them to get away with it.

I'm not making any situation. It is what was said. It be the same no matter who it was from any country instead of Polish. The end of the day its all about profits. They dont care about your wages. They just dont care. Cheap as possible.

Other people from poorer countries are happy to do it for less than any British person. So many think this is racist though. Lazy and racist.

Caged · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:42

V F said:
I'm not making any situation. It is what was said. It be the same no matter who it was from any country instead of Polish. The end of the day its all about profits. They dont care about your wages. They just dont care. Cheap as possible.

Other people from poorer countries are happy to do it for less than any British person. So many think this is racist though.

The situation was that a bad employer got rid of a staff member that complained about pay and replaced them with someone who would work for less. At the heart of it, that isn't an immigration issue, it's an employment issue.

When it is portrayed as an example of immigration going wrong as opposed to an example of employee rights going wrong then it's done to pit the working classes against each other.

lafemmefatale · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:49

Caged said:
The situation was that a bad employer got rid of a staff member that complained about pay and replaced them with someone who would work for less. At the heart of it, that isn't an immigration issue, it's an employment issue.

When it is portrayed as an example of immigration going wrong as opposed to an example of employee rights going wrong then it's done to pit the working classes against each other.

I told you once before, stop it with your common sense.

V F · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:49

They've done well to detract and hide it under another situation. Look where we are, its hip to say they are racist and lazy. Just like the politicians. They're so good at deflecting problems.

chroniclard · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:52

Be interesting to see if anything actually changes regarding immigration. Expect we will still end up being mostly the same as we already had control of our own borders.

Greebo · 1 Jul 2016 at 21:59

Oh dear Carswell set to be kicked out of UKIP on Monday cause "he has totally different viewpoints to the party"

Mony on Farage standing in his place?

Rilot · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:01

Greebo said:
Oh dear Carswell set to be kicked out of UKIP on Monday cause "he has totally different viewpoints to the party"

Mony on Farage standing in his place?

Source?
This could be good for a laugh if they pop Farage in there.

jl10000 · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:02

Simon said:
History suggests otherwise

Well perhaps its something that you just don't understand, its not dictated by price or where you were born.

Greebo · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:04

Rilot said:
Source?
This could be good for a laugh if they pop Farage in there.

Not sure if real or spoof but here you go

http://order-order.com/2016/07/01/farage-carswell-expelled-monday/

Judgeneo · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:06

Greebo said:
Oh dear Carswell set to be kicked out of UKIP on Monday cause "he has totally different viewpoints to the party"

Mony on Farage standing in his place?

On question time last night Carswell basically said that the only reason he hasn't quit UKIP was that he didn't want to put his constituents through a by-election again so soon

Greebo · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:07

Judgeneo said:
On question time last night Carswell basically said that the only reason he hasn't quit UKIP was that he didn't want to put his constituents through a by-election again so soon

If he is expelled on Monday from UKIP does that mean he has to stand down and there is a by-election or could he remain as an independent?

Mr Jack · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:08

Greebo said:
Oh dear Carswell set to be kicked out of UKIP on Monday cause "he has totally different viewpoints to the party"

Mony on Farage standing in his place?

Carswell won't stand down as an MP if he's kicked out by UKIP but it will severely weaken the party to lose its only MP. Farage would lose anyway, it's only Carswell that makes it a UKIP seat. The Tories will win it if he goes.

delta0 · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:08

Judgeneo said:
On question time last night Carswell basically said that the only reason he hasn't quit UKIP was that he didn't want to put his constituents through a by-election again so soon

If he is going to do it he will at the next election. He is the only UKIP MP at the moment. UKIP are dead and buried after this as they have become unnecessary now we have voted out.

Arthur Hucksake · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:09

chroniclard said:
Be interesting to see if anything actually changes regarding immigration. Expect we will still end up being mostly the same as we already had control of our own borders.

Some things will remain but we can have full control over rules of settlement.

No more mooching to be had.

You come here, you become one of us ....chip in and you get passported up asap.

Not going to lie, hearing some immigrants complain that they've been here for 15 years and are worried but never bothered to apply for citizenship.....

If I lived anywhere for that long it would surely be considered home by now.

Rilot · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:10

delta0 said:
If he is going to do it he will at the next election. He is the only UKIP MP at the moment. UKIP are dead and buried after this as they have become unnecessary now we have voted out.

I wouldn't bet on it. If the government dilly-dally with A50 then UKIP could see quite a boost in voters come the GE.

jonneymendoza · 1 Jul 2016 at 22:11

chroniclard said:
Be interesting to see if anything actually changes regarding immigration. Expect we will still end up being mostly the same as we already had control of our own borders.

Then the leavers will moan about it