Brexit thread - what happens next

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 11:47

Radox-0 said:
Thank you for some actual facts.So in effect our contribution after rebate and the money back incentives which the EU pour's into regions that we would need to cover anyways (though I have less faith in our government doing so) and we are looking at a weekly bill of £140 million.

So £140 million now to play with. Not going to go far when we will need to build up functions to properly apply said money and likely most will vanish with extra holes that will need to be plugged.

Even less when £100m more a week has been promised to the NHS this week should Gove win.

Of course, we've heard that sort of promise before

John40 · 2 Jul 2016 at 11:58

Freakbro said:
Why do Leavers feel confrontation and/or violence is necessary just because some people are expressing their democratic right to protest?

If one side decides to march in favour of ignoring the vote why shouldn't the side who won legitimately march as well.

Roar87 · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:01

Freakbro said:
On a 52-48 split of course you would.

Don't forget when Farage thought Leave had lost and announced defeat around 11pm on vote night, he actually said if it's something like a 52-48 split that's not enough of a mandate and a second referendum would be required.

Funny I haven't heard him saying the same thing now he won

Nigel Farage isn't the government, he wasn't part of the Leave campaign, he would be campaigning to leave Europe until it happened regardless because that's how he strongly feels.

Remain lost, if Leave lost we would've been told to put up or shut up. Deal with it

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:03

Bonjour said:
Isn't the rebate separate from EU-funded initiatives?

Yes, it's completely separate and is never actually paid.

Kenai · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:03

John40 said:
If one side decides to march in favour of ignoring the vote why shouldn't the side who won legitimately march as well.

That's different to the quoted post though, that specifically said confrontation, not an equivalent march

John40 · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:04

Kenai said:
That's different to the quoted post though, that specifically said confrontation, not an equivalent march

You know full well when 2 marches take place with entirely different agendas violence will result.

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:05

Roar87 said:
Nigel Farage isn't the government, he wasn't part of the Leave campaign, he would be campaigning to leave Europe until it happened regardless because that's how he strongly feels.

He was part of the leave campaign, but he's so divisive and extreme that they decided, wisely, to ostracise him.

Roar87 said:
Remain lost, if Leave lost we would've been told to put up or shut up. Deal with it

Stop being so confrontational. There is no need.

Kenai · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:07

John40 said:
-

Edit original quoted post got deleted

Bonjour · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:09

Indeed. If remain had won, we'd still be hearing about pencil-gate.

Skunkworks · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:10

Scrutinize said:
I think the government could legitimately hold a second referendum now. The analogy is more like an Olympic medalist being striped of the medals when caught cheating rather than the football match replays.

I love the different ways people square it away in their own head how it's for the best to ignore deomcracy.

Usher · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:14

But if we had remained in the EU what would future contributions rapidly rise to with several countries waiting to join and with richer countries footing the bill

Is forcing of all EU countries to adopt the Euro after 2020 going to happen?

Is the end plan a United states of Europe ?

Gilly · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:17

Usher said:
But if we had remained in the EU what would future contributions rapidly rise to with several countries waiting to join and with richer countries footing the bill

Is forcing of all EU countries to adopt the Euro after 2020 going to happen?

Is the end plan a United states of Europe ?

All unknowns. All things we'll no longer have any input to if we choose to leave.

the_r_sole · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:19

Skunkworks said:
I love the different ways people square it away in their own head how it's for the best to ignore deomcracy.

In a democracy you are allowed to protest just as are allowed to vote...

What no one (that I've heard anyway) seems to understand is that it will be political suicide for who ever invokes article 50 when it's such a slim margin of victory - there are people who have voted leave that will be surprised by the consequences and when only a tiny swing would be needed once the economy is stunted for a prolonged period and public services affected etc who ever has led the country into it becomes completely unelectable.
This is a major problem when we have career politicians running the show rather than people with actual morals and ideologies.

do_ron_ron · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:23

Tefal said:
So in thisncase then theyvdo not have a veto, despite you suggesting they did

What???? The treaty that contained Article 50 and all the other bits was agreed years ago. Up till then they had a veto. After that they have to abide by the rules. Juncker is simply reminding them of that. It is not rocket science.

Greebo · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:28

helmet said:
Somewhat, we run that because we don't actually make anything anymore.
What do we make? Put services aside, Wetherspoon chains? I've struggled for a long time to understand what we make.
Previous situations don't come close, we made something then.

Yeah successive governments have ignored manufacturing and concentrated on services such as the financial sector. Whereas Germany took the manufacturing route.

We make very little nowadays and even then a lot of it is just for foreign companies such as Toyota who have 8 factories in Europe to switch their production too if it suits.

Makes us very vulnerable imo

Skunkworks · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:28

the_r_sole said:
What no one (that I've heard anyway) seems to understand is that it will be political suicide for who ever invokes article 50 when it's such a slim margin of victory - there are people who have voted leave that will be surprised by the consequences and when only a tiny swing would be needed once the economy is stunted for a prolonged period and public services affected etc who ever has led the country into it becomes completely unelectable.

Here's a whacky idea, how about we wait and see if this economic apocalypse actually occurs before we all descend into Mad Max-esque behaviour?

Greebo · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:30

John40 said:
Then there literally would be blood on the streets as half the country would be almighty mad.
Not going to happen they can't afford the repair bills.

Again why does it have to be bloody violence cause things haven't gone your way? Are all out voters violent thugs ?

Rroff · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:32

Greebo said:
Yeah successive governments have ignored manufacturing and concentrated on services such as the financial sector. Whereas Germany took the manufacturing route.

We make very little nowadays and even then a lot of it is just for foreign companies such as Toyota who have 8 factories in Europe to switch their production too if it suits.

Makes us very vulnerable imo

We could always go back to our Imperialist roots :O don't think some would be happy about that heh.

In the future as someone mentioned we'd really have to focus on value added/high end products (which is going to mean people actually stumping up some real money in investment and taking some risks) in both manufacturing and the service industry rather than try to compete with the power houses that can pump out cheap tat in mass volume.

Skunkworks · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:34

Greebo said:
Again why does it have to be bloody violence cause things haven't gone your way? Are all out voters violent thugs ?

Democracy is what keeps people content. Start ignoring it and it’s a slippery slope.

the_r_sole · 2 Jul 2016 at 12:34

Skunkworks said:
Here's a whacky idea, how about we wait and see if this economic apocalypse actually occurs before we all descend into Mad Max-esque behaviour?

What I am saying is that our politicians don't want to invoke article 50 because it makes them unelectable and they are career politicians.
There is no way that all leave voters will be satisfied with the outcome given the huge range of reasons people voted leave.
It's very clear we will enter recession, it's not "economic apocalypse" but it makes things hard for a lot of people and the political party doing it will suffer