Soldato
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This arrogance that Britain says jump and the EU says how high is laughable. Germany pays far more why should they do what Britain wants?
Brexit thread - what happens next
- Thread starter Gilly
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This arrogance that Britain says jump and the EU says how high is laughable. Germany pays far more why should they do what Britain wants?
You really do talk absolute undiluted tripe on a constant basis, Glaucus.
The political process has never been any different... scaremongering, playing on fears, and leveraging popular feeling to get votes. It was a 100% democratic process, whether you agree with the outcome or not.
Lol what rubbish.
Soldato
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I agree, PR seems problematic for the reason I see as it's advantage - it means that any policy that is passed has genuine cross party support and should better represent the whole population rather than single parties who are whipped
It has to go to a decision in parliament, they will take it into consideration but could still vote against it. It was after all a marginal win.
Soldato
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Less likely scenario than anything else. The UK only got a Referendum because Cameron was worried about losing Tory seats to UKIP. Remember he had promised one before.
Agreed it would be more democratic and nothing extreme would ever get passed. Equally very little ever gets done either. Sometimes something tough needs to be done and wouldn't under pr.
Talk the steel industry. The Tories decided to let the steel industry disappear in the uk in favour of a 10 billion investment in the uk from the Chinese. Could you ever imagine that getting passed under a PR situation? There would be enough against voters in favour of keeping the steel industry which would have resulted in the 10 billion not been invested.
I'm not saying that was the right decision, but quite often it's not all black or white and when there are those difficult grey areas, pr parliaments tend to result in doing nothing or the status quo.
It can also result in that one leading big group in order to get a policy through that they want have to do a deal with a tiny minority group eg UKIP and you get laws passed which are only supported or wanted by a tiny majority of people.
Both systems have their flaws which was why the in between system old have been the way to go but we voted massively against that.
There is one massive advantage of pr. Most laws voted in tend to be the ones with the most support from the majority of the population.
the steel industry as it is does need to go, UK can not produce mass market cheap goods.
that's not to say I'm against investing in the steel industry. it just needs a complete shift to efficient plants combine with highest quality steel. especially with so many countries wanting to build nuclear. There's not enough supply of such steel.
but at the same time the workers need to fight the unions and agree to change.
that's not to say I'm against investing in the steel industry. it just needs a complete shift to efficient plants combine with highest quality steel. especially with so many countries wanting to build nuclear. There's not enough supply of such steel.
but at the same time the workers need to fight the unions and agree to change.
Soldato
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If the club is no longer to our liking, we leave.
It's a tricky one, I think the stagnation under coalition is exaggerated simply because the UK is not used to the idea hence the total lack of understanding of the lib dem conservative deal. Loads of major countries have had coalition governments for decades and don't seem to be paralysed by indecision on the big issues.
Agreed but where I live it was the second most giving reason for voting leave as the eu had destroyed the steel industry. It amazes me how this became "fact"
You get people complaining about the CAP being there to prop up French farmers and shouldn't be allowed but people wanted the same thing for the steel industry.
human nature, people like blaming something far away from them,. even to the point of defending extremely bad companies they work for.
we have a large problem in the uk. are infrastructure is old thanks to leading the industrial revolution and there's a resistance from many companies to infest to update and same for the public not in my back garden.
well you can keep curvy railway tracks which will always be relatively slow. or you allow governments to build new stuff at a fraction of the cost of upgrades, but it requires being built in someone's back yards.
same issue with criminal law and are appalling rates of rehabilitation, we know how to drastically improve things. but public just wants revenge, and as such government implements rubbish rules which is why success rates are so low.,
its why democracy has never and never should be majority rules.
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Soldato
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If it was a recreational club you may have a point.
*holds head in hands*
Soldato
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Not forgetting the EU tried to do something about 'dumping' cheap Chinese steel but a veto from the UK prevented it. Another example of dictatorial EU
Am really confused Glaucus...the vote asked a really simple question and the stipulations were that whichever side got more votes would be selected as the outcome. Its really straightforward and very simple...no room for ambiguity.
I didn't see people complaining about the format beforehand, and now that a majority by a 4% swing as voted in one direction then that will needs to be upheld, otherwise it makes a mockery of that particular voting process
There was misinformation on both sides, that's how campaigns work. Be it elections or votes for a student leader every campaign is full of conjecture.
Yes of course its your right to debate, we have freedom of speech after all. However the particular action of leaving needs to be upheld with the exact methods potentially up for debate over the coming months by the elected party. Once we are out and the situation has stabilised then of course in the future we could have another vote. If you don't like the direction of the country being decided by "racists, cretins and idiots" as the remain camp seem to be suggesting 52% of people are then go and campaign to change our political system.
hold your head as much as you want, it doenst make you right.
again democracy isn't based on lies.
and the biggest lies in recent history by a massive amount was the leave campaign, so no it's not democratic.
just incase you've missed it although it's been posted numerous times
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