Brexit thread - what happens next

D1craig · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:07

platypus said:
It's pretty sad that you have to ask that question.

Well things I see is our businesses getting closed down and stuff. Things like the tata steel plant and even some of the car factories.

Regardless how my question makes you feel you didn't give an answer.

Pudney · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:07

Mr Jack said:
No, it covers the rules for the exit deal too.

Article 50 refers to the framework for a future relationship, not an actual binding deal.

Caveat: although I'm not a lawyer and may be interpreting "framework" incorrectly in this situation.

dowie · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:08

Tunney said:
That's not true. At present, we have freedom of movement for those with a realistic chance of finding a job. In theory, we can kick out anyone who doesn't.

Unfortunately, the government has done a poor job of enforcing the rules.

you can come here and sell the big issue then claim various in work benefits if you like... it isn't exactly workable as is

Dr Jack · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:08

wildman said:
which also states

No, it doesn't. Where are you getting that from?

I agree there may be further legal issues but article 50 only calls for parliamentary consent and qualified majority voting.

dowie · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:09

Mr Jack said:
As written, article 50 could be interpreted as the EU coming up with a deal and then offering it to is without is even being in the room.

I think we'll have negotiations though...

Dr Jack · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:11

Pudney said:
Article 50 refers to the framework for a future relationship, not an actual binding deal.

Hmm.... You may be right. That is not how I understood it but I am also not a lawyer.

Dr Jack · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:11

dowie said:
I think we'll have negotiations though...

I think so, but they may not be conducted in the manner of our choosing.

platypus · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:12

D1craig said:
Regardless how my question makes you feel you didn't give an answer.

How are you unable to find this out for yourself?

Arazi · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:15

itchy said:
Keep going son as it will achieve? 0!

That is great

Arazi · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:21

Deadly Ferret said:
Are you lot still banging on about this?! It's been ten days lads. The world has moved on, and more importantly my shares have fully recovered.

Won't you ever learn that you are part of the sweaty masses? Doesn't matter how passionate - or intelligent - you are. You're part of a hive mind suffering from split personalities, and you're only worker class. (Don't any gimboids mistake that for 'working class' and go off on one!)

Might as well stick your shovel in to the Sahara than debate this debacle.

I have thought like that for just over 45 years except for the past few months, i need a smack to the face to bring me back to that way of thinking

Great post.

Freefaller · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:28

Greebo said:
only joking, love you really

<3

Worse comes to the worse I have options either way.

Feel bad for you Grudas though realistically nothing will change for many many years. Also they'd be idiotic to close the door on valuable contributors to the UK.

scorza · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:38

Pleased to read this from Leadsom:

Citizens of other EU countries living in the UK cannot be "bargaining chips" in Brexit negotiations, Tory leadership contender Andrea Leadsom has said.

The UK's foreign secretary had said it would be "absurd" to guarantee a right to stay in the UK before a reciprocal deal was done for UK expats in the EU.

But Mrs Leadsom said the UK government must guarantee the rights of EU people already in the UK to stay after Brexit.

Frankly I find it amazing that it needed to be said, but in the context of this referendum and the hysteria surrounding the fallout it seems anything is possible these days.

estebanrey · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:43

scorza said:
Pleased to read this from Leadsom:

Frankly I find it amazing that it needed to be said, but in the context of this referendum and the hysteria surrounding the fallout it seems anything is possible these days.

The problem is what happens if we give the 3m EU citizens already here leave to stay indefinitely but the EU countries don't do the same with the 1.5m Brits living in there?

It's about numbers rather than bargaining chips, we simply could not cope if all of a sudden 1.5 million people came 'back' in a short amount of time.

Greebo · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:43

Bonjour said:
We actually have a huge car industry atm, albeit for foreign-owned car companies using us as an entry point into the European market.

Actually our biggest export is food at 20% which is also the one thing likely to be hit by the largest tariff

dowie · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:44

I think most should stay and I'm generally pro immigration but there are a small number it would be useful to get rid of - the Romanians hanging around Marble arch for a start, EU foreigners with criminal offences who can't currently be deported etc..

Arazi · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:47

kitch9 said:
The reason we had the referendum is because the quick rise of UKIP over a couple of elections along with them getting voted into the EU Parliament.

People have been voting for what they think about the EU for long before the referendum.

Excellent point.

Dr Jack · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:49

estebanrey said:
The problem is what happens if we give the 3m EU citizens already here leave to stay indefinitely but the EU countries don't do the same with the 1.5m Brits living in there?

Why would they do that? Germany is floating moves to give easy citizenship to UK citizens living there, Bulgaria has already done the same, and I expect moves along these lines from many other countries.

The only country that might act is Switzerland which wouldn't be party to any EU treaty anyway.

dowie · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:51

Mr Jack said:
Why would they do that? Germany is floating moves to give easy citizenship to UK citizens living there, Bulgaria has already done the same, and I expect moves along these lines from many other countries.

they probably wont for those very reasons... but it isn't a good idea to make concrete guarantees from our side before even starting negotiations

scorza · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:52

estebanrey said:
The problem is what happens if we give the 3m EU citizens already here leave to stay indefinitely but the EU countries don't do the same with the 1.5m Brits living in there?

It's about numbers rather than bargaining chips, we simply could not cope if all of a sudden 1.5 million people came 'back' in a short amount of time.

Britain should always try to treating people humanely and with dignity (pretty disgusted at the Chagos Islands ruling last week). I don't think the EU would not reciprocate that arrangement for UK citizens living in the EU, but even if they did we should not demean ourselves by kicking out EU citizens living in the UK. How you treat people matters.

Greebo · 4 Jul 2016 at 16:53

dowie said:
they probably wont for those very reasons... but it isn't a good idea to make concrete guarantees from our side before even starting negotiations

Correct. Never walk into negotiations where you have public declared something that you arent prepared to give up. If I was the EU, first thing I would use would be "all UK citizens have to go home unless you accept freedom of movement"

She is very naive. Maybe cause she has what had 6 years as an MP and 2 years as a junior minister?