Remainers - Who do we vote for now?

[Burnsy2023]

Interesting to note (not sure if it came up in the other thread) that French government lawyers have said there is scope to rescind a50 if enacted and within the two years. One suggestion is there could be a referendum based on any deal agreed, before we pull out. So depending on when a50 is enacted we may well have a GE before the time runs out.

Any source on that?

 

[Amp34]

If May wins, we won't imo.

I don't think there is a win situation in the Conservative party leadership race unfortunately.

I'm quite glad I'm not in the UK right now, I'm not too keen on practicing my open hand salute, which I'm sure May will be implementing after she enters...*

*tongue in cheek, with a sprinkling of truth, before someone jumps on it

 

[a1ex2001]

That disparity is about to get wider with the next super right Tory government that's incoming.

Damn those turkeys voting for christmas! I hate to think what legislation will be necessary 'to cope with the effects of Brexit' but I'm betting none of it will improve workers right cap executive par and rises, sought out the housing crisis or in anyway disadvantage the rich!

I don't think there is a win situation in the Conservative party leadership race unfortunately.

Inclined to agree the top three all have massive draw backs I think May is my first choice but I hate some of her policies and the self serving way she does things to benefit herself before anything else, Gove is frankly bonkers and Leadsome terrifies me!

 

[McstylisT]

I don't really think we have much option Burnsy. We're facing down the barrel of an even more right wing authoritarian government who don't come close to representing the views of at least half the country.

And whats worse, if they don't get their act together in ripping up our EU history, it will just drive the popularity of the divisive politicians up further. Hell this will probably happen anyway when leave voters don't get what they want from an EU exit. It is after all impossible to please everyone.

Not a great lot to look forward too.

The fact is Platypus is actually correct !!! ( wow always a first )

There is a momentous change in direction in the way politics will be conducted and demonstrated.

To address the OP post, yes I believe you could be stuck and I think we all need to learn and re-evaluate our vision for the Country and politics. There was a lot of bad ways, ideology that was pushed and this in my belief will all change over time.

Starting with the actual article 50 brexit negotiations.... Once we are out officially, we will see actual benefits.

 

[wildman]

I think May is my first choice but I hate some of her policies and the self serving way she does things to benefit herself before anything else, Gove is frankly bonkers and Leadsome terrifies me!

Lol the fact that we are now here debating how Teresa "all your data, emails, porn, computers are belong to me" May is our first choice, just about sums up what has happened here.

It's like being asked to make a choice between getting repeatedly kicked in the balls or repeatedly punched in the balls. I don't want either thanks as they both mean the same thing, knackered balls............

 

[Amp34]

Any source on that?

Wasn't sure where I read it which is why it wasn't in the first post, but I found it.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...iament-vote-article-50-government-lawyers-say

At a separate hearing of the Treasury select committee, leading constitutional lawyers revealed that the French government legal service has informed the French government that the UK would be entitled to rescind a notice to withdraw even though it had invoked article 50.

Such flexibility would mean that even if it was triggered, the UK could reverse a decision to withdraw, if either parliament or a second referendum endorsed the step.

How accurate and politically realistic that is is another debate, but it does ease some interesting options, especially for negotiations. If we don't like any deal we get, we rescind a50.

 

[joeyjojo]

If someone was to start a party based on honesty, transparency, true accountability and social equality with a convincing, honest leader I would imagine that they would waltz straight into power.

I can't be the only one who feels this way, surely?

We need someone like... Gandhi!

What tears?

Perhaps instead of posting rubbish like this...

Don't feed the troll.

 

[wildman]

Wasn't sure where I read it which is why it wasn't in the first post, but I found it.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...iament-vote-article-50-government-lawyers-say



How accurate and politically realistic that is is another debate, but it does ease some interesting options, especially for negotiations. If we don't like any deal we get, we rescind a50.

so the UK throws world markets into turmoil, threatesn the fabric of the EU, wipes billions off markets due to knackered Forex rates and then at the end of 2 years goes, nah, think we'll stay.

Jesus that would be interesting to see the reaction from everyone we just plunged into recession..........

 

[Amp34]

Hence I said I don't know how politically realistic it would be, even if it were possible.

It does open up doors and give us a slightly stronger negotiating position with the EU though. We have an "out"* to apply leverage to negotiations if needed.

*well I guess it really should be an in but...

 

[wildman]

Hence I said I don't know how politically realistic it would be, even if it were possible.

It does open up doors and give us a slightly stronger negotiating position with the EU though. We have an "out"* to apply leverage to negotiations if needed.

*well I guess it really should be an in but...

also provide them with leverage to provide a bad deal to "encourage" us to stay which might be a nice get out of jail free card for the next PM

 

[RaohNS]

What tears?

You keep stating that nonsense, and yet I'm not seeing it.
People are stating they're unhappy with a vote result and discussing who they'd vote for under specific conditions.
This isn't any ******* tears it's pretty much the same sort of discussion you get about any controversial vote, it's just got more people interested as it's something that potentially affects a lot more people than "who do you vote for is tuition fees go up" or "who do you vote for if X becomes leader of the party".

I find it amusing that some of the people that are most happy with the fact that their choice won a vote on a 4% margin are claiming it's a huge victory and a massive majority and should be respected under all circumstances and to even discuss the fact that it could be over turned by another vote as undemocratic.

I guess our entire system is undemocratic given we overturn vote results on a pretty regular basis by voting differently in another election.

One poster has said he cried and was scared when he heard the news. Grow up man! The issue here is purely that remainers are now looking for a way to alter the vote. The scary thing is I feel they will succeed I doing so and thus usurping democracy.

If we invoke article 50 there is a big chance my employers will wind down UK operations... = I will lose my job...

I am sorry if I don't want to move on...

Is there demand for your job? If there is you have nothing to worry about, if there is no demand: To do a Dolph: Your job is worthless anyway.

As said the issue I have is with people not accepting a vote. "just a 4% difference" that translates to nearly 1.3m extra people.

 

[Burnsy2023]

The scary thing is I feel they will succeed I doing so and thus usurping democracy.

Even if this is done democratically? Can people not change their minds?

 

[jetpaczx]

Is there demand for your job? If there is you have nothing to worry about, if there is no demand: To do a Dolph: Your job is worthless anyway.

Whether my job is worthless is not the factor, its still my job and I would like to keep it...

As said the issue I have is with people not accepting a vote. "just a 4% difference" that translates to nearly 1.3m extra people.

But if you feel the vote is fair based on lies (by both sides) then who am I to say otherwise.

But I get the feeling the EU Monster touched you in your special place and you want out regardless

 

[platypus]

One poster has said he cried and was scared when he heard the news. Grow up man! The issue here is purely that remainers are now looking for a way to alter the vote. The scary thing is I feel they will succeed I doing so and thus usurping democracy.

In your eagerness to insult, belittle and gloat you're skipping over the fact that democratically people have the right to change their mind. It is not usurping democracy to do so, and by your repeated claims that people should accept the vote and shut up, you are the one trying to usurp democracy.

As said the issue I have is with people not accepting a vote. "just a 4% difference" that translates to nearly 1.3m extra people.

You then go on to say that you're unhappy with people being unhappy with the result of a vote, and that a difference of 1.3m people should not be disregarded. Whilst disregarding the vote of 16m voters. Are you Farage in disguise?

 

[PinkPig]

Is there demand for your job? If there is you have nothing to worry about, if there is no demand: To do a Dolph: Your job is worthless anyway.

I think you're in the wrong thread... but regardless, if the economy is smaller then there is less demand for jobs. We are all aware it's not black & white, and many people do well in a contracting economy. But the general trend is negative - that's what it means to say that the economy is getting smaller. People get squeezed out more than they would in an expanding economy.

I (sort of) understand that leave voters were willing to sacrifice the economy in the short/medium term for a (perceived) long-term benefit. But it's phony to imagine that anyone directly affected was useless anyway.

 

[Basher]

Even if this is done democratically? Can people not change their minds?

So we should have a vote about having another vote?

 

[Tunney]

The issue here is purely that remainers are now looking for a way to alter the vote.

No-one is looking to alter the vote. It's happened and can't be changed. However, the referendum was only advisory and says nothing of what our post-exit relationship with the EU should look like.

There's nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe is right. 48% of voters wanted to remain and their voices should be heard almost as loudly as the 52% who voted to leave.

 

[wildman]

No-one is looking to alter the vote. It's happened and can't be changed. However, the referendum was only advisory and says nothing of what our post-exit relationship with the EU should look like.

There's nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe is right. 48% of voters wanted to remain and their voices should be heard almost as loudly as the 52% who voted to leave.

#notdemocracy mate, you lost deal with it because that is democracy right........ ?

 

[platypus]

So we should have a vote about having another vote?

Isn't that what General Elections boil down too? We don't like this government so lets vote in another/we like this government give them another term.

No - another referendum would not be a good idea, but what if a government gets elected with a manifesto promise to re-enter Europe? Should that be denied?

I don't think it will for the record.

 

[RaohNS]

Even if this is done democratically? Can people not change their minds?

They can of course but the referendum I and has been done. What is being talked about by politicians is that they should ignore the will of the majority and even elect a government that can overturn the vote. That's just foul.

Whether my job is worthless is not the factor, its still my job and I would like to keep it...

But if you feel the vote is fair based on lies (by both sides) then who am I to say otherwise.

But I get the feeling the EU Monster touched you in your special place and you want out regardless

So would I and as daft as it sounds I'd like you to keep your job. Haha yes it did. Was a bit rough and wouldn't let me suggest anything I would like to do

In your eagerness to insult, belittle and gloat you're skipping over the fact that democratically people have the right to change their mind. It is not usurping democracy to do so, and by your repeated claims that people should accept the vote and shut up, you are the one trying to usurp democracy.

You then go on to say that you're unhappy with people being unhappy with the result of a vote, and that a difference of 1.3m people should not be disregarded. Whilst disregarding the vote of 16m voters. Are you Farage in disguise?

I am not gloating. I am saying that this particular zealotry we are seeing of anyhow anyway is disturbing. If leave had lost I can guarantee I wouldn't be making one iota of the fuss that we are seeing. Democratically they do... But the choice is made. By not invoking A50 it will have been, if A50 is invoked and the Lib Undemocrats come in on the platform of rejoining then a referendum means what?

No I am not say disregard 16m people but I certainly wouldn't disregard the majority 17.3m.

We have said this before but by some of the stance of the remain camp we should never have joined under the ToR as it was a fraction of the votes and less than half the turn out that put us in and all of that join campaign in hindsight we now know to have been a total lie.

I think you're in the wrong thread... but regardless, if the economy is smaller then there is less demand for jobs. We are all aware it's not black & white, and many people do well in a contracting economy. But the general trend is negative - that's what it means to say that the economy is getting smaller. People get squeezed out more than they would in an expanding economy.

I (sort of) understand that leave voters were willing to sacrifice the economy in the short/medium term for a (perceived) long-term benefit. But it's phony to imagine that anyone directly affected was useless anyway.

I have a chance to air my grievance. This referendum has affected absolutely everybody. Of course we cannot remain in stasis.

No-one is looking to alter the vote. It's happened and can't be changed. However, the referendum was only advisory and says nothing of what our post-exit relationship with the EU should look like.

There's nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe is right. 48% of voters wanted to remain and their voices should be heard almost as loudly as the 52% who voted to leave.

As a leaver I have already said my view and vision of post exit. Their voices should be heard... 100% behind you. But the nation now needs to start getting itself on its feet and begin the negotiating table, secure our seat at the WTO and go from there.