The next Labour leader thread

Eagles press conference was lolworthy. Desperately looking for important journalists to ask her questions like BBC journalists and Robert Peston, but none had bothered to turn up lmao!

Think they were there initially (which is why she sought them out) but they left when they realised bigger news was breaking with Mrs "I'm a mum therefore a potential PM" announcing she was out of her depth and giving up, Eagles could learn from her but doubt she will!

The silence in this evenings radio news from Corbyn is deafening as ever.
 
Corbyn is part of a trend toward political diversity. That's largely why I want him to stay - if Douglas Carswell wins the UKIP leadership then that gives us a party in each corner of the political compass, and one near the centre. Compared to a decade ago, when everyone was clamouring for the "Centre-Right" sweet spot, that's an incredible change.

Labour's history and Union backing makes them the natural Socialist party in the UK. If people want 'New Labour', or something similar to it, they'll find that in the Liberal Democrats. I'd suggest that many Labour MPs, and many Labour voters, would find a better home there.

Tell me you're not positioning the biggest destroyers/sellers of state owned assets (current Tories) as "Centre", or perhaps you mean the Liberal Democrats?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ancellor-for-more-than-30-years-a6786926.html

After the Liberal Democrats sided with a Tory government and a pretty right wing one at that, I suggest they'll have trouble recruiting from the centre left, though this would be their ideal time...
 
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Tell me you're not positioning the biggest destroyers/sellers of state owned assets (current Tories) as "Centre", or perhaps you mean the Liberal Democrats?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ancellor-for-more-than-30-years-a6786926.html

After the Liberal Democrats sided with a Tory government and a pretty right wing one at that, I suggest they'll have trouble recruiting from the centre left, though this would be their ideal time...

Of course I was referring to the Liberal Democrats. Traditionally a centrist party, and currently led by a man who was (at the time) a harsh critic of the coalition and the decision to work with the Tories. Under Tim Farron they are very much a centrist party again after dabbling in right-wing populism under Nick Clegg.

Conservatives - Right-Wing Authoritarian
Labour - Socialists
Greens - Left Libertarians
UKIP - (potentially) Libertarian
Lib Dems - Centrist
 
I would like Corbyn to continue for the same reason as satchef1. We've had years of centrist politics with only a hair to separate Labour and the Conservatives. With Corbyn, the Labour party might be able to pull the whole political landscape a little to the left.
 
I'm dubious it can work given the SNP problem... Labour probably won't win in Scotland, so winning an overall majority is borderline impossible... so, just as last time, there will be loads of stuff about Labour having to do a deal with the SNP to win/form a government/etc.

Personally, I'd be really up front about this. Miliband had trouble because he tried to avoid discussing it, leaving the papers and the Tories to fill in the blanks.

Full devolution for Scotland, on the condition that SNP MPs back the government on all policies that don't directly impact Scotland, as well as a few restricted areas where Scotland is impacted (foreign policy, for example). During the Parliament, redraw the constituency boundaries and tweak Hollywood's relationship with (and representation within) Westminster so that it becomes representative of their devolved status

Frankly, full devolution seems increasingly inevitable now. We wouldn't really be giving anything away - it'll likely become the only way to save the Union.

It doesn't really matter who is in charge of Labour. They'll still have to address the Scotland problem as any possible majority will be slim. Blair's 'Landslide' would've been a majority of 12 in 1997 had the SNP been at their current strength. During that campaign, he too would have been quizzed on the Scotland problem and the possible need for a coalition.
 
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Eagles press conference was lolworthy. Desperately looking for important journalists to ask her questions like BBC journalists and Robert Peston, but none had bothered to turn up lmao!

Eagle's position is essentially irrelevant. If the NEC decides Corbyn has to get nominations, she might win by default, but otherwise she'll be trounced.
 
Eagle's position is essentially irrelevant. If the NEC decides Corbyn has to get nominations, she might win by default, but otherwise she'll be trounced.

Should know for certain tomorrow. But Corbyn said he'll be mounting a legal challenge if he's denied a spot. So it may not be a victory by default for Angela (or everyone but Corbyn, as I assume more contenders will be emerge if he isn't on the ballot).
 
Should know for certain tomorrow. But Corbyn said he'll be mounting a legal challenge if he's denied a spot. So it may not be a victory by default for Angela (or everyone but Corbyn, as I assume more contenders will be emerge if he isn't on the ballot).

Essentially the party would be in true meltdown if they removed the elected leaders option of standing, unlikely the large swell of new membership would vote/campaign for the party after such a coup.
 
Essentially the party would be in true meltdown if they removed the elected leaders option of standing, unlikely the large swell of new membership would vote/campaign for the party after such a coup.

The question is, would the party rather have a problem with the selectorate or the wider electorate? Corbyn is massively unpopular outside the selectorate bubble. The Conservatives, without any bounce for a new leader or removal of uncertainty are currently 8 points clear of labour.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk
 
The question is, would the party rather have a problem with the selectorate or the wider electorate? Corbyn is massively unpopular outside the selectorate bubble. The Conservatives, without any bounce for a new leader or removal of uncertainty are currently 8 points clear of labour.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk

A very skewed view of an actually democratic method of choosing a leader.
Political elites are decidedly not the flavour of the month with the electorate either.

Frankly as a sometimes Labour voter, I'm not as interested with the Corbyn phenomena (or Leadership polling in general) as I am with the utter disgust in politicians and the UKs political system, which is starting to manifest itself.

The last question time I watched there was more dislike of politicians on display than I have seen in a life time.

The time is right for actual political choice and I see none of that coming from the current parliamentary Labour/Conservative parties. Who knows where Labour/Conservatives will be at in the next few months.

And that is without factoring brexit, as the old chinese curse goes "May you live in interesting times"
 
A very skewed view of an actually democratic method of choosing a leader.
Political elites are decidedly not the flavour of the month with the electorate either.

Frankly as a sometimes Labour voter, I'm not as interested with the Corbyn phenomena (or Leadership polling in general) as I am with the utter disgust in politicians and the UKs political system, which is starting to manifest itself.

The last question time I watched there was more dislike of politicians on display than I have seen in a life time.

The time is right for actual political choice and I see none of that coming from the current parliamentary Labour/Conservative parties. Who knows where Labour/Conservatives will be at in the next few months.

And that is without factoring brexit, as the old chinese curse goes "May you live in interesting times"

But a realistic one. The UK is a parliamentary democracy, the electorate votes them in, and the party leader has to have their loyalty to be able to achieve anything.

The implosion of labour, as funny as it is, is also terrible for democracy.
 
The question is, would the party rather have a problem with the selectorate or the wider electorate? Corbyn is massively unpopular outside the selectorate bubble. The Conservatives, without any bounce for a new leader or removal of uncertainty are currently 8 points clear of labour.

But that gap had been falling before the rebels decided to descend the party into Chaos, so it's a bit odd to point to it as a failure of Corbyn. I also don't think it's at all clear that any of the alternative leaders would be doing better.
 
But a realistic one. The UK is a parliamentary democracy, the electorate votes them in, and the party leader has to have their loyalty to be able to achieve anything.

The implosion of labour, as funny as it is, is also terrible for democracy.

So we should have a Blarite leader?
Tories followed by red Tories, forever, creeping further and further right.

Dolph you have a twisted view of democracy, where the only choice is one or another party both of whom are (mostly) aligned with your own political views.

I have no problem with UKIP/May/Leadsom as choices or the Liberals for that matter but even a failed left wing opposition is better than effectively becoming the same as the Tories.

Deregulation of the banks, pfi, Iraq, what was the point of real power that the Tories supported all in opposition.
 
Essentially the party would be in true meltdown if they removed the elected leaders option of standing, unlikely the large swell of new membership would vote/campaign for the party after such a coup.

Here's a concern though: the inflow from erstwhile Lib Dem/Green voters after the last election does not match the outflow to UKIP or non-voters that is ongoing. As Carswell pointed out nicely, you can join a party for twenty five quid online these days, and in and of itself political party membership means little (how many are actually involved?). And this is just from casually browsing through YouGov data and voting records for a chunk of constituencies. You've also got to account for the 'must join a cause' factor after electoral drubbings. It's reasonably common but doesn't last.

Of secondary worry for Corbyn is the demographic profile. If it remains reasonably middle-class, educated and predominantly metropolitan -- he won't go anywhere electorally. Namely there aren't enough of them to make much of a difference, even if we assume 2/3 turnout can be maintained.

If Corbyn hangs on and the party stays together, I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see the Tories as the largest party with a waning base and everyone else grabbing an increasingly even proportion of the vote. Under FPTP, and even PR, such a distribution would be laughable as a force for change or ideological purity (imagine the rainbow coalitions that would be required!).

Anyway. A resolution is needed soon. Indeed for the sake of all the mooted economic reforms, a Corbynite would be wiser holding on to the shadow chancellor seat rather than No 10 in waiting. But that's my crackpot idea of a joint ticket/informal Labour coalition to get PR (a sort of Blair/Brown, only this time Blair/Corbynite?). I doubt the party will ever be as sensible as that to take back power. It's sad to see that they are probably more keen on the legal ambiguities of their rulebook, atm. What a mess.
 
Here's a concern though: the inflow from erstwhile Lib Dem/Green voters after the last election does not match the outflow to UKIP or non-voters that is ongoing. As Carswell pointed out nicely, you can join a party for twenty five quid online these days, and in and of itself political party membership means little (how many are actually involved?). And this is just from casually browsing through YouGov data and voting records for a chunk of constituencies. You've also got to account for the 'must join a cause' factor after electoral drubbings. It's reasonably common but doesn't last.

Of secondary worry for Corbyn is the demographic profile. If it remains reasonably middle-class, educated and predominantly metropolitan -- he won't go anywhere electorally. Namely there aren't enough of them to make much of a difference, even if we assume 2/3 turnout can be maintained.

If Corbyn hangs on and the party stays together, I wouldn't be surprised to eventually see the Tories as the largest party with a waning base and everyone else grabbing an increasingly even proportion of the vote. Under FPTP, and even PR, such a distribution would be laughable as a force for change or ideological purity (imagine the rainbow coalitions that would be required!).

Anyway. A resolution is needed soon. Indeed for the sake of all the mooted economic reforms, a Corbynite would be wiser holding on to the shadow chancellor seat rather than No 10 in waiting. But that's my crackpot idea of a joint ticket/informal Labour coalition to get PR (a sort of Blair/Brown, only this time Blair/Corbynite?). I doubt the party will ever be as sensible as that to take back power. It's sad to see that they are probably more keen on the legal ambiguities of their rulebook, atm. What a mess.

The Blair ticket is dead.
Did you see questiontime in Brighton after Chilcot, frosty reception for the Blarite on the panel.
 
The Blair ticket is dead.

Yes and no. David Milliband, for example, would fit that glove, and like Eagle could just ply the 'I'm my own man' shtick well enough, unlike Angela, to swing much needed constituencies under new boundaries. A Corbynite chancellor can however still hold on to the metropolitan vote, and it's through economics that you shift the Overton window, not through warm slogans, unless, of course, you wish to discard the lessons of the Reagan/Thatcher era in their entirety and pick a different reality and country to that available on the ground.

In the latter case you face the referendum problem -- nobody listens even if your intentions are good and supposedly in their best interests. A paradigm shift could take decades, and assumes Tories fail; can Labour survive in protest and obscurity for that long?

Did you see questiontime in Brighton after Chilcot, frosty reception for the Blarite on the panel.

It being Brighton, I'm not surprised. :D
 
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So we should have a Blarite leader?
Tories followed by red Tories, forever, creeping further and further right.

Dolph you have a twisted view of democracy, where the only choice is one or another party both of whom are (mostly) aligned with your own political views.

I have no problem with UKIP/May/Leadsom as choices or the Liberals for that matter but even a failed left wing opposition is better than effectively becoming the same as the Tories.

Deregulation of the banks, pfi, Iraq, what was the point of real power that the Tories supported all in opposition.

I dislike authoritarianism, both social and fiscal. Decrying those who wish to enforce their opinionsite through the force of state, whether that is about who I can marry or how much of my property I can keep, is required as a result because I value human rights.

Corbyn's brand of fiscal authoritarianism is as abhorrent to me as the far right's brand of racism.
 
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