What you find in Corbyns policy as abhorrent as racism is bizarre to me, but I suggest it is better for democracy to have something approaching actual choice. Than continual right sliding governments.
The next Labour leader thread
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What you find in Corbyns policy as abhorrent as racism is bizarre to me, but I suggest it is better for democracy to have something approaching actual choice. Than continual right sliding governments.
Yes and no. David Milliband, for example, would fit that glove, and like Eagle could just ply the 'I'm my own man' shtick well enough, unlike Angela, to swing much needed constituencies under new boundaries. A Corbynite chancellor can however still hold on to the metropolitan vote, and it's through economics that you shift the Overton window, not through warm slogans, unless, of course, you wish to discard the lessons of the Reagan/Thatcher era in their entirety and pick a different reality and country to that available on the ground.
In the latter case you face the referendum problem -- nobody listens even if your intentions are good and supposedly in their best interests. A paradigm shift could take decades, and assumes Tories fail; can Labour survive in protest and obscurity for that long?
It being Brighton, I'm not surprised.
The lesson of the Reagan Thatcher era is don't vote for a child of thatcher who tires to successfully emulate her, complete with his very own war. Blair was frankly horrible for the Labour movement, if only John Smith hadn't died when he did.
Soldato
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I apologise I didn't have chance to defend my drivel last night.
Dog whistle politics doesn't only apply to racists and bigots.
So a stab in the dark thinking of what Rt Hon Jeremy Corbyn MP might have said and the loonier left imagined he meant.
Fairer society - > tax the rich
Social justice -> tax the rich
Inclusive society -> spend loads on touchy feely public sector non jobs
End austerity -> spaff money on the public sector using the national credit card
Then just to make sure people understood you give a Maoist the role of Shadow Chancellor, a vegan the role of Shadow Farming and a unilateral disarmer the Shadow Defence brief.
That kind of thing, you know makes you feel all warm and fuzzy if you thought the Labour party wasn't left wing enough for the last 20 years.
The notion is a fairer society starts with less disparity between the rich and poor. We are seeing a massive social upheaval that is centred or centres their worldview that the avarice of a few runs contrary to what is fair. Only an idiot could disagree with that notion. Look at meritocracy based principles and you see less division. Switzerland for example.
As I've said before, if the rich and especially the hyper rich pay what they should a swathe of society problems would fade unto oblivion. 1% of the wealth of the wealthiest 1% of individuals and companies = all money/budget shortfalls gone.
I agree on some aspects of the non-jobs. But only insofar as management structures. Twelve levels of management isn't efficient and those are particularly those non-jobs. A lot of people do however forget that public sector workers are tax payers as well. Working in education the biggest most devastating impact has been caused by removing EMA. I spoke to somebody who called my work after that instance: My view was for every 5 public sector redundancies the govt/council should be obligated to recruit and train an apprentice. I wonder if you can guess what that one action would have done to NEET figures
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Sorry but he has not been using dog whistle politics because he has been explicit in stating the view that the rich should pay higher taxes. Dog whistle refers to using words or phrases that communicate a particular message to a group by way of coded references. That is not the case with Jeremy Corbyn he has been pretty explicit in his views and communicated them directly.
None of those examples really relate to what you have suggested and the idea that inclusive society is a coded reference to increased public sector workers is nonsensical.
John McDonnell is not a Maoist that is a ridiculous suggestion. Farms do actually grow vegetables as well so why can't a vegan make policy in that area? Trident is a massive waste of money and an utterly pointless weapon system £167bn for a massive national penis extension that you can't ever use! The UK is up **** street economically Trident is a luxury that just can not be afforded anymore.
![[TFU] Thegoon84](/styles/overclockers/avatars/6.png){kind=avatar}
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Pretty sure that the last time there was a "left Party with loonie lefties in tow" the NHS was created, welfare was established, unemployment at an all time low, 100,000s of council houses built.... Sad thing with this country at the moment is the government is so far right anybody with a centre house view is considered a liberal leftie who wants to hug a tree and only eat grass.
Go open your door, walk outside and take a long hard look at the real world... Because it appears you've no clue whats really going on!
The gap between the rich and poor is constantly increasing, normal people call for it to stop... Response "Ooooohhhhhh so you're jealous are you, typical leftie always wanting something for free".... RUBBISH, we want a fair tax system. /Waits for "but they pay 70%".... SO WHAT? If you're rich and pay tax then you're doing us a favour are you? jog on!
This country is completely one sided, as a result tarded parties like UKIP (tories) have been able to rise up quick by blaming immigrants.... When in truth, lower, middle and even a portions of upper class are getting bummed by greedy multinational companies with fingers in Cameron and bankers... BUT HEY DONT YOU DARE "SAY IT AS IT IS" otherwise you'll get call and under achiever!
This is why Corbyn is doing well.... You Loonie righties have become so entrenched in lies feed to you from media you fail to see how the rest of the country is being treated!
And yes, I see the "real world" daily.
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Wow, it's seems I've blown the dog whistle.
As this is GD not SC I have done a liberal (no pun intended) amount of gilding the lily with my comments for effect. It is a terrible affliction I have that I forget how humourless people can be these circumstances and apologise for whatever it is I have suggested that has your ire.
As this is GD not SC I have done a liberal (no pun intended) amount of gilding the lily with my comments for effect. It is a terrible affliction I have that I forget how humourless people can be these circumstances and apologise for whatever it is I have suggested that has your ire.
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Talks crap.... Runs off with tail between legs..... Says he was only trolling.
Lolcakes.
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PS I reworded your "drivel" from a tory view point.
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Soldato
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Now now, not trolling.
Describing a man who pulls out the Little Red Book at the Budget as a Maoist is an exaggeration surely but not trolling.
Describing the effect Corbyn's appearance as Labour Party leader has had with regard to pulling hard left activists back into the party fold as dog-whistle politics may not be the most exacting definition of the term but has a frisson of truth about it.
People have disagreed with my interpretation, they are welcome to their opinion, I have no desire to be nasty about people disagreeing with me.
Edit: having read back over what I have actually said over the last few pages I think I'm suffering as much liberal (again no pun intended) interpretation as poor old Jeremy.
Describing a man who pulls out the Little Red Book at the Budget as a Maoist is an exaggeration surely but not trolling.
Describing the effect Corbyn's appearance as Labour Party leader has had with regard to pulling hard left activists back into the party fold as dog-whistle politics may not be the most exacting definition of the term but has a frisson of truth about it.
People have disagreed with my interpretation, they are welcome to their opinion, I have no desire to be nasty about people disagreeing with me.
Edit: having read back over what I have actually said over the last few pages I think I'm suffering as much liberal (again no pun intended) interpretation as poor old Jeremy.
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Come now, this is a deliberately misleading representation of McDonnell's ill judged stunt. He used it as a prop, he did not refer to its contents or suggest he sided with it.
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Joking aside... The Conservative government have gone so far to the right, if you speak up about social injustice or ask for a fair society then you're instantly labelled a leftie loonie.... So yes, terminology like what you use does offend and get peoples backs up and no longer should be classed as "opinion".
I've had to resign myself to fact I may just be a "loonie". When in truth, all I want is for the gap between the rich and poor to not continue to grow, adequate funding for public services, a worthwhile job (If you've worked hard enough for it), adequate funding for the NHS which for example has saved my daughters life... I want her to have the same when she grows up and its looking like it wont be the case.
Its a sad state of affairs when the high and might tory and right wingers scream "leftie loonies" about everyone who believes in a fair society or supports Corbyn. Its like they/you think there's a large group of Loonie leftiest that's been lurking in the shadows waiting to hi-jack politics.... Haha, maybe... But very much doubt it, there's a huge number of people who live in the real world who don't earn £50,000+ a year who are standing up and being counted!
So by all means, carry on your blinkered Drivel.
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Caporegime
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Exactly, when did social justice become a bad thing?
When was it ever a good thing?
[TFU] Thegoon84;29771826 said:
raising tax rates doesn't necessarily bring in more tax revenue, the opposite in some cases actually. Cracking down on tax evasion is one thing but trying to reduce a gap for ideological/envy reasons is pointless and likely self defeating... it seems like some on the left, as Maggie pointed out, would prefer everyone to be poorer so long as the gap has narrowed.
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Corbyn's at the NEC. More to come in the afternoon. Live coverage here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ship-ballot-would-be-sordid-fix-politics-live.
Equality of outcome is a hard thing to ensure and guarantee in advance. In a global market context virtually impossible. So not a bad thing as such but the practicalities of its implementation are daunting and rather light on planning at the moment. Paul Mason had some interesting thoughts on this but even he would agree that spending more aimlessly, in a system as it is, can only go so far.
Equality of outcome is a hard thing to ensure and guarantee in advance. In a global market context virtually impossible. So not a bad thing as such but the practicalities of its implementation are daunting and rather light on planning at the moment. Paul Mason had some interesting thoughts on this but even he would agree that spending more aimlessly, in a system as it is, can only go so far.
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Yup!
Could you explain please how wanting a fairer society would be a bad thing...... You do realise that by a fair society doesn't mean everyone gets an equal share.... Rather everyone gets a equal shot and contributes equally (in a nut shell)!
Call me mad right, but how is that a bad thing?.... Or should progression and wealth be kept to birth right and entitlement.
Until we stop being a selfish self centred race we'll never EVER progress as humans.... Too deep on the last comment, soz. Must be leftie liberal nut job loonieness.
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ideological/envy .... Why does it always come down to this?
Maggie said, the problem with socialism is that "eventually you run out of other peoples money"..... What a great thing to say, especially when the government can time and time again be seen for a better word "stealing" from the public... eg, Royal Mail sell off, RBS, Slowly under funding of the NHS so it can be privatised, George Osborn selling more public assists than any other Con government before.... So I ask you, is it really other peoples money we're asking for, or just for us to keep our fair share of what is the publics!
I know this might be difficult to grasp right, but its not about raising the taxes of super rich... Its about balancing the economy in a way that benefits all.... Impossible... maybe .... But we're only as strong as our weakest and our weakest have been completely and utterly wiped out and forgotten about.... I say this from first hand observation.
We or rather a large number of people aruge on behalf of business men who literally hoard money, which more often than not has meant peoples pensions and livelihoods have been stolen, or their opportunity of a decent paid job has been taken away so profit margins suits investors.
One day all of this will hit the fan! Social media is stronger than ever, people are beginning to stand up, remember the Con's might have a majority government but only fraction of the country voted them! People can see as plain as day whats going on with a bit of research, the younger generation particularly are more against conservative views..... 30 years from now, we might have a society which doesn't tolerate the constant abuse of the working man/woman!
Back to OP... If Corbyn is unfairly ousted i'l never vote Labour again. Angela Eagles talks of him being unelectable when he was elected with a majority vote....
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Death threats and vandalism. The situation with Labour gets uglier by the day.
I wonder if Angela got her offices smashed because she tried to kidnap that Australian boy?
I wonder if Angela got her offices smashed because she tried to kidnap that Australian boy?
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Did that labour committee decide if he needs votes, or will be on the paper yet?