Brexit thread - what happens next

[Mulder]

So before any formal negotiations have even begun, the idea of allowing a restriction on free movement for a number of years is already being discussed by EU leaders according to this, something that goes further than that achieved by Cameron.

Maybe the EU does negotiate after all, despite all those insisting free movement was completely non-negotiable. One thing is for certain (though I'm sure somebody on here will dispute it), we're in a stronger position to negotiate now than we were.

 

[phil675]

Shows how desperate they are to keep us in, considering their first reaction was 'alright then go'.

 

[dalehitchy1]

So before any formal negotiations have even begun, the idea of allowing a restriction on free movement for a number of years is already being discussed by EU leaders according to this, something that goes further than that achieved by Cameron.

Maybe the EU does negotiate after all, despite all those insisting free movement was completely non-negotiable. One thing is for certain (though I'm sure somebody on here will dispute it), we're in a stronger position to negotiate now than we were.

That news story was shot down a few hours later.

 

[Skunkworks]

Perhaps we’ve started the ball rolling in getting it back to a trading bloc rather than the creepy cult it evolved into. One bold country with 52% brave and visionary citizens who gave the bully a bloody nose. It’s like George and the dragon all over again.

 

[dalehitchy1]

Perhaps we’ve started the ball rolling in getting it back to a trading bloc rather than the creepy cult it evolved into. One bold country with 52% brave and visionary citizens who gave the bully a bloody nose. It’s like George and the dragon all over again.

So if I tell me bank I want to cancel my fees for my credit card and keep all the benefits I get with it.... If they say no.... Are they bullies?

Grow up please. We are / were part of the club and we have to follow all rules. We can't pick and choose what rules to follow. If we don't like it We have the right to leave which people have voted to do. But even when leaving it seems like the UK is demanding we have all the benefits of being in the EU (but now pay nothing at all!)

If anything... I'd say the UK are being bullies.

 

[Skunkworks]

EU isn't a credit card, mayte.

 

[Insanties_birth]

So before any formal negotiations have even begun, the idea of allowing a restriction on free movement for a number of years is already being discussed by EU leaders according to this, something that goes further than that achieved by Cameron.

Maybe the EU does negotiate after all, despite all those insisting free movement was completely non-negotiable. One thing is for certain (though I'm sure somebody on here will dispute it), we're in a stronger position to negotiate now than we were.

Problem is it's still only something they are considering and to consider a slight extension to a temporary fix is still failing to acknowledge the public wanta permanant fix. They're not really negotiating but rather playing the game of talking. After all if the UK just up and left (unlikely of course) we'd accept 0 immigration, to try and spin it as a win for us they talk of a temporary stop that will simply leave us in the situation we don't want to be in afterwards.

This does lean in the right direction but I honestly believe it could go either way, EU could prove they're terrible at compromise and respecting others views or they might extend an olive branch to a long time member who contributed to the system and is still a key potential ally. I'm just hoping they don't let there arrogance get in the way of recognising what works for us works for all really, the sooner we wrap up a good deal the sooner the markets return to normal. The sooner we get single market access the sooner we carry on buying there products without worry and investment in the eurozone continues. I hope we don't have 2 years of european resentment from some butthurt elites that are sad there project of taking sovereignity away is getting weakened.

 

[deuse]

So before any formal negotiations have even begun, the idea of allowing a restriction on free movement for a number of years is already being discussed by EU leaders according to this, something that goes further than that achieved by Cameron.

Maybe the EU does negotiate after all, despite all those insisting free movement was completely non-negotiable. One thing is for certain (though I'm sure somebody on here will dispute it), we're in a stronger position to negotiate now than we were.

I would be 100% against this.

In 7 years time all those millions of gimmigrents will have a EU passport and will head here. So back to square one.
And we will still have to pay loads of money to the EU. The Visa system is the only way to go.

 

[Skunkworks]

I hope we don't have 2 years of european resentment from some butthurt elites that are sad there project of taking sovereignity away is getting weakened.

Exactly. Who really wants the EU the way it is other than a handful of elites and the net taker countries?

 

[Concrete]

I would be 100% for it.

Give the slower sections of society a chance to see that things have only got worst based on their actions.

Then give them an easy way out of the mess they have created.

Could call it the Breverse maneuver

 

[Skunkworks]

I would be 100% for it.

Give the slower sections of society a chance to see that things have only got worst based on their actions.

Then give them an easy way out of the mess they have created.

Brexit is 5 year minimum plan, not 5 weeks.

 

[Insanties_birth]

So if I tell me bank I want to cancel my fees for my credit card and keep all the benefits I get with it.... If they say no.... Are they bullies?

Grow up please. We are / were part of the club and we have to follow all rules. We can't pick and choose what rules to follow. If we don't like it We have the right to leave which people have voted to do. But even when leaving it seems like the UK is demanding we have all the benefits of being in the EU (but now pay nothing at all!)

If anything... I'd say the UK are being bullies.

It's not a bank though, it was meant to be a union but the problem is the union was more about setting up political and business convenience and ignored the tenents of democracy and listening to the people. We've seen quite often they use harsh rhetoric or try and question if they should punish us or throw us out etc. for having a vote among the public about whether that union ever should have had those sort of powers to control several key issues like immigration, tax and certain laws. The union is meant to work for us but it was often hamstringing us to giving up more control and even when discussing leaving (which should be any nations right) punishment should have never been even considered. Nato wouldn't punish people or try and steal there sovereignity, the g20 doesn't but the EU does act like bullies.

In the end the union didn't work to how most rational and sovereign governments should expect it to work, it was just a case of ever growing power grab that left us in a position where even though most members were happy with it there was ever growing euro scepticism and this was always ignored in favour of making the union have more power rather than more respect or leeway for the member nations. To pretend it's just a case of joining a club and that is that is actually incredible stupidity and ignores the entire reality that the EU changed a lot since we initially joined it. Over simplification and then telling people to grow up while ignoring many of the facts, issues and changes that made this situation occur? Smashing argument. But remember we joined a trading bloc and not a union of power grab that wants to have power over more of our laws than we do by the end.

The UK bullies? Another redundant and stupid argument, how can we bully so many other countries? Whether discussing our past membership (in which we was a member of the union and entitled to voice our discontent with any changes) or whether it be the current situation where we simply acknowledge it's not working for us and that is largely down to respecting democracy and the peoples say then there is no real argument for little UK being the bully of the entire EU. Talk about over simplified and wildly off the mark assertions man.

 

[Mulder]

That news story was shot down a few hours later.

Was it?

Shows how desperate they are to keep us in, considering their first reaction was 'alright then go'.

Yep. Look at how Juncker has changed his tone too, at first it was "you need to leave ASAP" and now it's "understand you need time". We're in a much better negotiating position now we've voted to leave.

Snip

I would be 100% against this.

Personally I don't care about immigration that much, but I understand a lot of leavers do. Hopefully it proves the point that it's up for negotiation though, despite so many insisting the EU doesn't negotiate. If this is their opening gambit then there's hope we can do a deal that better reflects the concerns of those who voted leave.

 

[Skunkworks]

...and ignored the tenents of democracy and listening to the people.

No coincidence that this also describes the rabid Remainers in our midst who want more refs until they get the result they personally like.

 

[Concrete]

Brexit is 5 year minimum plan, not 5 weeks.

They finally got round to coming up with a plan? Is it shared anywhere?

 

[Mulder]

They finally got round to coming up with a plan? Is it shared anywhere?

Sure, here are some ideas. Of course nobody publishes their chosen path/negotiation strategy ahead of going into talks, so I don't expect you to say "but which one".

• Flexcit - The Market Solution to leaving the EU (429 pages)
  [*]A road map for British exit from the European Union (73 pages)
• The Route to the UK’s global prosperity through International Networks (89 pages)
• Britain outside the European Union (140 pages)
• The plan to leave the European Union by 2020 (60 pages)
• Britain Revitalised and Independence Regained (60 pages)

 

[dalehitchy1]

It's not a bank though, it was meant to be a union but the problem is the union was more about setting up political and business convenience and ignored the tenents of democracy and listening to the people. We've seen quite often they use harsh rhetoric or try and question if they should punish us or throw us out etc. for having a vote among the public about whether that union ever should have had those sort of powers to control several key issues like immigration, tax and certain laws. The union is meant to work for us but it was often hamstringing us to giving up more control and even when discussing leaving (which should be any nations right) punishment should have never been even considered. Nato wouldn't punish people or try and steal there sovereignity, the g20 doesn't but the EU does act like bullies.

In the end the union didn't work to how most rational and sovereign governments should expect it to work, it was just a case of ever growing power grab that left us in a position where even though most members were happy with it there was ever growing euro scepticism and this was always ignored in favour of making the union have more power rather than more respect or leeway for the member nations. To pretend it's just a case of joining a club and that is that is actually incredible stupidity and ignores the entire reality that the EU changed a lot since we initially joined it. Over simplification and then telling people to grow up while ignoring many of the facts, issues and changes that made this situation occur? Smashing argument. But remember we joined a trading bloc and not a union of power grab that wants to have power over more of our laws than we do by the end.

The UK bullies? Another redundant and stupid argument, how can we bully so many other countries? Whether discussing our past membership (in which we was a member of the union and entitled to voice our discontent with any changes) or whether it be the current situation where we simply acknowledge it's not working for us and that is largely down to respecting democracy and the peoples say then there is no real argument for little UK being the bully of the entire EU. Talk about over simplified and wildly off the mark assertions man.

My arguments aren't redundant. You can't leave a club but expect to get all the same benefits. If I demanded that anywhere else I would be laughed at.

Yes the EU has changed a lot since we first joined. perhaps that is why people voted leave. but in the end....People voted leave so we should leave. Do leave voters want to sort of stay now? Because you can't have everything

 

[wildman]

China will **** us.

correct, and they won't even have the decency to give us a reach around. Anyone who thinks we can get a good deal with China, i.e one that benefits us as much as them is dreaming.

 

[Insanties_birth]

My arguments aren't redundant. You can't leave a club but expect to get all the same benefits. If I demanded that anywhere else I would be laughed at.

Yes the EU has changed a lot since we first joined. perhaps that is why people voted leave. but in the end....People voted leave so we should leave. Do leave voters want to sort of stay now? Because you can't have everything

Not all the same benefits no, hence why it should be a negotiation but the idea that it's just some club and we're kicking a fuss is a bit ignorant to the reality of how the club functioned, changed and sought to increase it's influence and mandate of control on our political functions. In the end I'd be happy to give up our rebate and maybe some other compromises to try and reach a system where we contribute more financially (as that is fine since we get money from the EU single market anyway) but have a little more control on immigration or other rules like tax etc. The difficult part is just how inflexible the EU is on many of it's issues. This is like if Nato slowly tried to dominate world militaries by increasingly forcing votes on giving up more funding, membership conditions and political sovereignity over to them. Most would have rejected that and the EU simply kept asking for more so of course lines have to be drawn now.

Most people wanting to leave would want to stay, just because they wrote down on the ballot box there vision of what the choices amounted to (or rather another scare tactic to give us a choice they felt they could scare us away from with economic doom and gloom) does not mean that is what everyone automatically wanted. I'd have rather voted to demand more reform, it wasn't an option and voting to stay felt like they was going to keep committing to power creep so I voted leave. I'd rather we leave, remain a part of the EEA and then possibly renegotiate entry when they have opened there eyes and realise not everyone wants that sort of political situation of taking away our controls but that would never have happened if we gave them support to carry on with there uncaring fashion of dragging countries along with popular decision. I like the idea of working together (lets trade, lets sort immigration crisis together, lets have united approaches on crime etc.) but I don't feel it appropriate to have large parts of our laws on tax, crime and immigration dictated by others. We'll simply have to renegotiate but now if we lose something to gain something then that's the game sadly, the EU aren't good at compromise or respect so we'll see which way the wheel spins but I'm just glad we put the spanner in the works of ever closer union. Besides, you can't really leave the EU anyway, we've voted leave and we see now a scramble for a different deal or a different relationship with them, this is the reality of it but I don't feel letting them wheel over democracies was any better a solution.

 

[wildman]

The EU is a cancer that needs removing. It's a dictatorship where those in charge were never voted in.

If people think countries are going to be stubborn towards us when creating trade deals then they really have fell for the fear mongering. Business is business.

Remainers should be ashamed. They make this country weak.

Also people asking for a second referendum make me laugh. What do we do keep voting until you get the outcome you want. We voted, majority had the sense to vote correctly and in the long term if we don't half arise it we will benefit. The EU will collapse within the next couple of decades and it will be glorious.

oh dear you don't understand how this works. We won't be cutting deal with individual countries in the EU, we will be dealing with all 27 in one hit and they all have to agree on what ever deal gets tabled. I would say the daily fail has done a good job brainwashing you, but it is clear you have no brain to be washed in the first palce