Brexit thread - what happens next

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There's no hourly rate for fruit picking/veg cutting pal, it's piecework paid on results. If your good at it you can earn some good money but if you're rubbish then so is the pay. I knew loads of Brits who did it before the Eastern European criminals began flouting the rules as unlicensed gangmasters & it became a closed shop.

You mean people have to be self-employed despite having to do exactly what their employer customer tells them to and not having any ability to set their own prices for their work?

I can't help feeling that the people getting worked up about migrants doing menial jobs in poor conditions are directing their displeasure at the wrong people. This emerging culture of being your own boss despite having to stick to a rigid schedule, getting paid per job with zero benefits and no pension contributions is such an obvious example of kicking the can down the road.
 
You mean people have to be self-employed despite having to do exactly what their employer customer tells them to and not having any ability to set their own prices for their work?

Having to do what your employer or customer tells you is what most people have to do to earn a living. You don't set your price - the market does, this works both ways so if you're currently earning I dunno, 5p per apple picked and the orchard down the road is offering 7p then people leave the first farm and go work at the second. It was the complete undermining of the bottom end of the labour market when the supply of unskilled and semi-skilled labour was massively expanded that I found utterly distateful.
 
I was more getting at the legal distinction between a self-employed person / contractor and someone who is employed. The move towards being self-employed on paper but having to do exactly what you are told for a price you don't get to have any say on is not really a description of self-employment that stands up to scrutiny. IIRC this is one of the main arguments Uber drivers are making at the moment.
 
Just to clarify, you think a 2nd ref after 40 years when the EU has morphed into something unrecognisable from what we first voted to join is the same as a 2nd ref after 40 days because you don’t happen to like the result?

Just to clarify the second referendum after the 40 days you refer to would actually be the third. The 'outers' have been whinging and moaning about the EU for the last 40 years, just ask the likes of Bill Cash M.P. :rolleyes: so why do you think the remainers aren't equally justified in doing the same?

It seems to be that now the 'wreckers' cough 'brexiteers' have finally got their way all dissent must now cease and we can't revisit our decision, is that how you see it, just for the record?
 
I was more getting at the legal distinction between a self-employed person / contractor and someone who is employed. The move towards being self-employed on paper but having to do exactly what you are told for a price you don't get to have any say on is not really a description of self-employment that stands up to scrutiny. IIRC this is one of the main arguments Uber drivers are making at the moment.

Well exactly, there is self-employed/contractor and there is self-employed/contractor. A lot of Amazon drivers are self-employed I believe yet they can't really do what they want with their day can they.

Now if you take myself as an example - you could say I am self-employed. I have just finished a job in China where I have been for the last six months. I gave them a price for my services, they flew me out there and paid for my hotel and living expenses whilst I was there, plus paid for regular trips home to see the family. A world of difference to the Amazon driver who are really Amazon employees except Amazon have no legal contract with them.
 
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Hey I can only go on personal knowledge. The Uk's biggest house builder as not dug a new foundation hole to start a new house for 7 weeks now.

Already we made 4 people redundant last week, more will have to go soon. By end of august we will have made two thirds of our staff redundant.

I hope you've already started consultation, otherwise constructive dismissal is waiting to say hello if you haven't, after that little revelation.
 
Just to clarify the second referendum after the 40 days you refer to would actually be the third. The 'outers' have been whinging and moaning about the EU for the last 40 years, just ask the likes of Bill Cash M.P. :rolleyes: so why do you think the remainers aren't equally justified in doing the same?

It seems to be that now the 'wreckers' cough 'brexiteers' have finally got their way all dissent must now cease and we can't revisit our decision, is that how you see it, just for the record?
'Outers' haven't been moaning about the EU for 40 years, not least because it hasn't existed for 40 years. It didn't legally exist until Jan 1st, 1993 on the activation of the Maastricht treaty. Which, by the way, was when the four 'freedoms' were implemented, including the ever-so controversial free movement of people. Prior to that, it was the EEC/Common Market, with roots in the ECSC, which is what the people of the UK voted on. Maastricht radically changed what the EEC was, and Lisbon radically changed it again.

So this is the FIRST time the people of the UK have had a chance to express their view on being in the organisation that is a huge political union, the EU, as distinct from the EEC/Common Market we originally joined. And that expression said 'leave'.

If you're going to use precedent to justify another referendum, that'll be in another 40 years then.
 
'Outers' haven't been moaning about the EU for 40 years, not least because it hasn't existed for 40 years. It didn't legally exist until Jan 1st, 1993 on the activation of the Maastricht treaty. Which, by the way, was when the four 'freedoms' were implemented, including the ever-so controversial free movement of people. Prior to that, it was the EEC/Common Market, with roots in the ECSC, which is what the people of the UK voted on. Maastricht radically changed what the EEC was, and Lisbon radically changed it again.

Leavers and Europsceptics have been moaning about the EEC / EU for 40 years, pretty much ever since Britain joined the EEC in 1973. They even blamed the EEC for the terrible tyranny of the decimal system, even though this was implemented before we joined the EEC.

Battling with the EEC (as it was then) and moaning in the British press about Europe was a constant feature of the Thatcher years, a time when a lot of the crazier Euromyths were born. Thatcher had a lot of trouble with Eurosceptics in her governments throughout the 1980s.

But of course it was John Major's administration which had the worst of it, particularly with the exit from the ERM and the fuss surrounding the Maastricht treaty in 1992. A period rife with Euroscepticism and constant moaning in the press.

And since Maastricht it's only got louder of course.

So none of this is anything new. It's been going on since Day 1, it's been a constant and never-changing stream of negativity about Europe. Some of it justified of course. A lot of it not. Much of it whipped up by the British media who have always had an unfailingly toxic anti-European stance. And all this constantly endorsed by Eurosceptic elements of the political parties, mostly on the right but not exclusively.

It's hardly surprising that this constant barrage of negativity has brought us to where we are with Brexit. Britain has never fully engaged with Europe in the past 40 years, not at any point. Always reluctant, always with opt outs, special vetoes, rebates, special clauses and of course never fully integrated into the Euro or political systems (nor was Europe demanding that the UK should be). All these concessions and yet still the UK moaned and moaned.

The UK never really gave Europe a chance by fully committing to it. The UK might like to think it did, but it didn't. Not even close.
 
Battling with the EEC (as it was then) and moaning in the British press about Europe was a constant feature of the Thatcher years, a time when a lot of the crazier Euromyths were born. Thatcher had a lot of trouble with Eurosceptics in her governments throughout the 1980s.



Maggie thatcher said after the maastricht treaty was signed "it's time to leave the EU" and she was right.
 
Boss of Taylor Wimpey was on Radio 4 this morning as well, describing the UK housing market as "robust", with only really the central London market feeling any negative impact from the referendum result.
 
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"GlaxoSmithKline is to invest £275m to expand its UK manufacturing sites, saying the country remains "an attractive location" despite Brexit."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36901027

And the good news keeps on coming :)

I see the 3 billion eu development fund has been suspended. This is money due from the eu as investment into the uk, but the rules are the home country has to match the payment.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-treasury-brexit-eu-referendum-a7154526.html

Yay we have a company investing all of £275m on other hand we potentially lost 3bn. Yeah that is a good news, I'd also take £275m over 3bn any day.
 
Jingoistic claptrap.

Eh? I'm not sure how a comment I make on a forum can be deemed as "patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy", which is what jingoism is.

I know, imagine if they knew that people were using their efforts and eventual death to guilt people and push your agenda, as if the credit for their contribution is your own.

I suspect many would be turning in their graves at you attributing views to them and trying to use their sacrifice to advance your argument.

You're the ones turning it into an issue. Sanctimonious much?

Those that believe in the causes I'm defending (our democracy, sovereignty, and ability to self-Govern) and then those that urged voters "not to give away what they fought for" would certainly not want to see people treat those issues with such a frivolous attitude, as many seem to on here.
 
Boss of Taylor Wimpey was on Radio 4 this morning as well, describing the UK housing market as "robust", with only really the central London market feeling any negative impact from the referendum result.

Too bad their investors don't agree, their share price is still down a good 22% on pre-Brexit.

Eh? I'm not sure how a comment I make on a forum can be deemed as "patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy", which is what jingoism is.

We had this before, you're right, but a more recent alternative definition is 'excessively patriotic or nationalistic'.
 
Boss of Taylor Wimpey was on Radio 4 this morning as well, describing the UK housing market as "robust", with only really the central London market feeling any negative impact from the referendum result.

Its funny that as I know for a fact that since Brexit they have not started bilding a new house, well at least in the North.

Prior to Brexit they were building 31 houses per week. Since then ZERO. Come next week, they wont have any work at all for their bricklayers.

Thats 5 x 31 x £200k = £31m lost revenue.

And they have said they have no idea when they will start building again as since Brexit they havent sold any houses (north) and they can't afford to build anymore until they sell some.

I can't see other areas fairing much better and it cant just be the North with the house build programe reduced?

I will assume its just the boss spouting rubbish trying to shore up the share price. If he went on air and said they hadnt built a house since Brexit, their share price would be 10% of what it is now.,
 
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UK joins Greece at bottom of wage growth league

Nothing to do with Brexit - this is for the period 2007-2015, but may help some people understand why so many people voted to Leave the EU.

So during the post recession recovery and on top of that with Torries' austerity measures in place. Either way I don't see how this is relevant to EU as all other EU counties, bar one, managed to do better than UK. Again this is just blaming EU for a failure of UK goverment to invest more money, though one can argue that tackling national debt is a good move.

Well those people that voted Leave because of low wages are in for a shock when they'll be left jobless and prices going up on top of that.
 
Too bad their investors don't agree, their share price is still down a good 22% on pre-Brexit.

Yeah last year Taylor Wimpey was the best performing share on the stock market, up 60% from memory.

Intersting to see the day after Brexit when share price dropped to £1.16, how many tens of thousands bargain price shares were bought by directors of TW. They will have made a quick 20% profit if they cash in now.
 
Well those people that voted Leave because of low wages are in for a shock when they'll be left jobless and prices going up on top of that.

Agreed especially when regional minimum wage comes in and it drops from £7.50 to £5 in the North......................;)
 
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc?

Is it correlation or causation. Did Taylor Wimpey have an increasing stock of unsold houses prior to the Brexit decision and the decision to stop building more unsellable houses coincided or did Brexit cause houses to be unsellable/unprofitable and so they chose to stop building them. You facts can be correct but they aren't sufficient to explain the cause.
 
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