Hinkley Point C

SPG said:
Its not just wind farms though is it.... solar, tidal, wind. I don't care if you green field has a windmill on it. I do care that i cant go in a 50 mile radius of a coastline due to a someone not switching a valve off for the next 150 years.

Sorry the risk is way to much, nuclear power is stupid and should be left in the 1950s where it belongs.

Maybe a salt based reactor, but then we cant make bomb material hence why it was never pushed in the first place.
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How do you know what the risk is?

Never met anyone educated in nuclear power and alternative energies that disagree with it being the most viable clean source. Much of the waste is re-cycled and it is not hard to dispose of safely.

A plant does not produce the tons of glowing green waste in leaky oil barrels which just get dumped in the sea.

A plant does not just blow up if the wrong switch is pressed or a valve is left open.


There is so much bad press and media on nuclear power as a result of Politicians pushing their agendas this way and that way. Just because someone can Google nuclear power doesn't mean their unfounded paranoias they got off the internet has any weight to them.
 
platypus said:
I know that energy strike prices are linked to CPI.

Your link even says without quoting a source.

What I meant is I'd like to see a source to show that the price for this particular deal is not fixed at £92.50, but is also linked to CPI.

The deal does somewhat make a mockery of the UK regardless in my opinion. The price/MWh here is £37.94. It seems to be another way that the UK private market is subsidising the French energy market.
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http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/NP-Hinkley-Point-C-contract-terms-08101401.html

http://www.hinkleysupplychain.co.uk/agreements-for-planned-hinkley-point-c-nuclear-power-station-approved-by-the-european-commission/

From the bottom one (but also in the other)

"The agreement for Hinkley Point C

The Commission found that the long-term contract (Contract for Difference) and the guarantee constitute an appropriate and proportionate way for the UK to meet its need for secure, low carbon energy. The Commission’s decision leaves the key elements of last October’s agreements unchanged whilst it has reinforced measures designed to share potential future benefits with customers.

The “strike price” for Hinkley Point C remains set at £92.50/MWh or £89.50/MWh if the planned power station at Sizewell goes ahead[ii]
The contract will last for 35 years
The strike price is fully indexed to inflation through the Consumer Price Index
The project will be protected from certain changes in law"


Also the current MWh price in the UK is currently around £40 /MWh but was up at about £45 / MWh at the start of October.
 
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Cheers. I just hadn't seen/read that before.

Interestingly enough from that second link:
EDF Energy has also committed that electricity from the proposed power station will be sold at market price and recorded separately from EDF Energy’s other electricity production.

EDF has agreed that the fee for the Government’s proposed Guarantee of project debt be paid at commercial rates.[iii] The agreed guarantee fee delivers the equity return required by investors.
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On the first point; EDF "commits", or EDF is contractually bound? There's a huge difference, and I sure don't trust EDF to not suddenly raise prices due to "challenging economic conditions".

Second point: how much exactly is meant by commercial rates?
 
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Not sure what the commercial rates thing is - seems to be linked to the UK Govt underwriting the loans?

"The proposed Infrastructure Guarantee would be used to support 65% of total budgeted costs prior to operation. EU rules require that the costs of the Infrastructure Guarantee provided by the Government will be paid for at a commercial rate."
 
Tefal said:
wqhy cant we just build the safe and efficent new ap1000?/
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Because our greatest ever Chancellor, the man who put an end to boom and bust, a man so prescient he sold our worthless Gold before everyone else caught on to its lack of value, this titan that single handedly saved the World financial system, sold it so he could have a few billion to spaff on tax credits.

BNFL owned Westinghouse until 2007 but with a foresight that few could match a giant among men realised that never would mankind need nuclear power again and sold it to Toshiba.
 
FuriousGeorge said:
Not sure what the commercial rates thing is - seems to be linked to the UK Govt underwriting the loans?

"The proposed Infrastructure Guarantee would be used to support 65% of total budgeted costs prior to operation. EU rules require that the costs of the Infrastructure Guarantee provided by the Government will be paid for at a commercial rate."
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Yeah I read that much too :p. "Commercial rates" is a tad lacking in detail.
 
PlacidCasual said:
Because our greatest ever Chancellor, the man who put an end to boom and bust, a man so prescient he sold our worthless Gold before everyone else caught on to its lack of value, this titan that single handedly saved the World financial system, sold it so he could have a few billion to spaff on tax credits.

BNFL owned Westinghouse until 2007 but with a foresight that few could match a giant among men realised that never would mankind need nuclear power again and sold it to Toshiba.
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Good lord is there nothing that cretin didn't **** up?
 
People are missing that the £90 is an incentive to build new plants, whereas the current £45 price is the price of energy produced through established, old, and potentially expiring plants.

A brand new, safer and efficient car will cost more than a 10 year old second hand one.

If you didn't offer EDF £90 they wouldn't build it, and then what? Wind and solar command even higher strike prices.
 
ALL public private ventures are absolutely rubbish deals for the tax payer, pretty good for boosting share holding values and handy for getting retired politicians lucrative seats on boards of companies though.
 
What has prevented tge uk from building a nuclear power station without the aide of other countries. Could it be the case that we do not have the engineers and relevant experience to undertake such a venture.
 
lunar said:
What has prevented tge uk from building a nuclear power station without the aide of other countries. Could it be the case that we do not have the engineers and relevant experience to undertake such a venture.
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Trust me, we have plenty of engineers to do this, the issue is that we don't have manufactories to make the complex component's.
 
Skeeter said:
People are missing that the £90 is an incentive to build new plants, whereas the current £45 price is the price of energy produced through established, old, and potentially expiring plants.

A brand new, safer and efficient car will cost more than a 10 year old second hand one.

If you didn't offer EDF £90 they wouldn't build it, and then what? Wind and solar command even higher strike prices.
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The problem is that even in the futures market for 2025 it isn't predicted to cost that much (in today's money). Even with the predicted decline in supply.

The return on equity predicted for EDF is 20% to 35%. That is an incredible sustained margin to achieve over decades.
 
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Glaucus said:
Perhaps its a good thing that government is reviewing it I knew edf were in trouble but not by this amount.

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...NSNS&utm_campaign=FBvideo&utm_content=HINKLEY

Perhaps we really should go green, with grid storage as price continues to drop. While nuclear length to build and cost seems yo be just spiralling upward.
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Yeah. Very mixed messages from all sources. One moment it's full steam ahead, the other someone's resigning or the government here or there is putting a break on things. Is Hammond more or less of a nuke-man? Osborne was obsessed with the project, it seems.:o
 
Latest news suggests that the objections are purely about Chinese involvement.

So I guess if that funding can be replaced, it will still go ahead.
 
I just dont understand why we are using the EPR design... its ballooned out of control on the budget and timeframes.

ESBWR, AP1000 and APWR all look significantly better value for money... and safer.
 
muon said:
Latest news suggests that the objections are purely about Chinese involvement.

So I guess if that funding can be replaced, it will still go ahead.
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I'm sure I heard on the radio that under the terms of the deal, the Chinese would be providing funding only for Hinckley C, but would be designing and building their own reactor at Bradwell after Hinckley was online. I don't remember that bit being announced by Osborne.
 
PlacidCasual said:
Because our greatest ever Chancellor, the man who put an end to boom and bust, a man so prescient he sold our worthless Gold before everyone else caught on to its lack of value, this titan that single handedly saved the World financial system, sold it so he could have a few billion to spaff on tax credits.

BNFL owned Westinghouse until 2007 but with a foresight that few could match a giant among men realised that never would mankind need nuclear power again and sold it to Toshiba.
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In fairness to the man in question, the state firesale hasn't exactly let up under his successor. Selling state assets to fund living standards is the new normal.

Doesn't change the fact he made some dim moves, but it appears nobody has learned from his mistakes.
 
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