MK5 Golf Gti - Edition 30

[Walkerie]

Thanks all for your input.

I currently have a 2010 Cupra 240 and potentially fancy a change.

My cupra has the k04 turbo which a lot of people say you don't start enjoying until at illegal or close to illegal speeds which I totally understand. The k03 turbo in the mk5 gti would spool quick and be more power low down but would the edition 30 which has the k04 turbo still have the same problem the cupra does?

 

[Leesey]

Thanks all for your input.

I currently have a 2010 Cupra 240 and potentially fancy a change.

My cupra has the k04 turbo which a lot of people say you don't start enjoying until at illegal or close to illegal speeds which I totally understand. The k03 turbo in the mk5 gti would spool quick and be more power low down but would the edition 30 which has the k04 turbo still have the same problem the cupra does?

As far as I Know, your Mk2 Cupra, and Mk5 ED30 are basically the same car. Same engine, same turbo, and both map to around 300BHP on a stage 1.

All you'll be changing is the body and interior looks.

If you fancy a change, get your car booked in for a stage 1 remap. Freeing up 60ish BHP will feel like a new car.

 

[xs2man]

Thanks all for your input.

I currently have a 2010 Cupra 240 and potentially fancy a change.

My cupra has the k04 turbo which a lot of people say you don't start enjoying until at illegal or close to illegal speeds which I totally understand. The k03 turbo in the mk5 gti would spool quick and be more power low down but would the edition 30 which has the k04 turbo still have the same problem the cupra does?

Didn't realise you basically already had one. In a cheaper suit.

In that case, as suggested above, I'd take it in for a remap, and see how you feel about it then. Shouldn't be overly expensive, I'd personally take it to R-Tech, and I'm properly miles away from them, or go for an APR map. If you still fancy a change, then not much money lost, and may been seen as a selling point to some buyers (or not). Or it may re-ignite your interest in your car, and convince you to keep it for a while longer.

In other news, the one I looked at the other day, I just finalised an offer on it, and should pick it up in a couple days. Couple picks in the show your motor thread.

 

[Walkerie]

Didn't realise you basically already had one. In a cheaper suit.

In that case, as suggested above, I'd take it in for a remap, and see how you feel about it then. Shouldn't be overly expensive, I'd personally take it to R-Tech, and I'm properly miles away from them, or go for an APR map. If you still fancy a change, then not much money lost, and may been seen as a selling point to some buyers (or not). Or it may re-ignite your interest in your car, and convince you to keep it for a while longer.

In other news, the one I looked at the other day, I just finalised an offer on it, and should pick it up in a couple days. Couple picks in the show your motor thread.

Looks nice, how much and how much mileage?

I am going to try out an ED30 over the weekend and see what I think

 

[Tute]

Drove the R32 and the Ed30 when I got the Focus and I preferred the R32 by a fair margin. It does feel heavier but in real terms it's no slower and it certainly feels a lot more special to drive given it's a VR6 rather than "just another" four cylinder turbo.

I can certainly see the appeal of the Ed30 mind.

 

[xs2man]

Looks nice, how much and how much mileage?

I am going to try out an ED30 over the weekend and see what I think

Sent you a trust. Good luck with the viewing. I did really like it.

Drove the R32 and the Ed30 when I got the Focus and I preferred the R32 by a fair margin. It does feel heavier but in real terms it's no slower and it certainly feels a lot more special to drive given it's a VR6 rather than "just another" four cylinder turbo.

I can certainly see the appeal of the Ed30 mind.

I just think the VR6 needs charging really. You are right, it is nice to drive, and not much difference, speed wise, to the ED30 when both standard.

But there is SOOOOO much room for improvement on the ED30, for relatively little outlay, whereas the R32 needs proper thousands spending to make it an actual fast car. And they are generally more expensive to buy in the first place too.

I will concede that they are a nicer looking motor though. The ED30 is just a GTI with a couple badges. And the 4wd would obviously be more useful when you are looking at the sort of power supercharging / stage 2+ puts out. And would inevitably sound better.

But both at 350 BHP, the R32 would be around £5k more. And I just couldn't justify that for a bit more note, and a couple extra driven wheels, lol.

 

[LiE]

They seem to still fetch a decent amount. 10-11k for a pretty old car now.

 

[The_Dark_Side]

I always thought the edition Golf's were just GTi's with some unique trim and wheel combos fitted. Really surprising to find out they are a different mechanical spec!!!

As for the R32, being non turbo they're always gonna be more responsive than a turbo car but the running costs are poor for what you get in return. As for tuning, yeah it's far more expensive than tuning a car that's already turbocharged but what that means in reality is you may as well go for big power rather than a more modest upgrade.

 

[Phil W]

You buy a R32 for love rather than performance gains. That sound!!

 

[LiE]

I'd have an R36 estate over an R32
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201607065606511

 

[xs2man]

Yep. All day long would rather have the R36 over an R32. 300 BHP is not to be sniffed at, and is only marginally less than the V8 S4 I had before (exhaust, induction and remap and you would probably be pretty close to the 340 BHP of the S4).

I did look at them, but as there is no real supercharger set-up for them (you would have to basically do it yourself, as Storm won't do them for customers), then they are very restrictive on the tuning front. And whilst turbocharging is an option, it costs as much as that car again.

Fine though if you don't want a weapon spec cruiser, but still shifts with a lovely soundtrack.

 

[nas]

Hi all,

Thinking of picking up a MK5 Golf GTI - I know that the extra 20-30 BHP is worth it from the standard version - but is it possible to get the same performance upgrade out of the original with a little modification/map?

Not sure if its worth spending the extra for an edition 30 if I can get the same or more with some careful choice modifications.

Thanks

Walkerie

If you're talking more power before purchasing then maybe you should be looking at a faster car to begin with (8P1 S3 perhaps, however these only come in manual, which might be a problem if you're after a DSG).

I wouldn't say the extra power justifies the variance either, especially when a stage 1 map on a mk5 will address the power shortfall - the rest is just cosmetic.

ED30's hold their value, but after the novelty wears off you're still paying over the odds for a MK5 GTI (unless you really like the ed30), the S3 would be a better buy if you're after the power, so save a few grand and buy a late MK5 (57/08).

 

[wesley]

which S3 with auto that will do 300bhp with stage 1 remap? so i can look at the autotrader

 

[xs2man]

Any one in the 8P shape, so 2003/4 onwards. They are all K04 engined. Just like the Edition 30.

I wouldn't say an S3 is a better purchase, necessarily, than the ED30. They have basically the same engines (although the brakes and inter-coolers are smaller I believe on the ED30).

I disagree, basically, with what nas says. Buying an ED30 isn't really like buying a GTI. It's more like a FWD S3, being that they share basically the same engine. So you can save a couple grand on the purchase price with an ED30 (instead of an S3), then spend the same on a map on the ED30 as you would on a map on the S3, and have exactly the same performance. But for a couple grand less.

To get the same power out of a mapped mk5 GTI as you would out of a mapped ED30, you need, at the minimum, a turbo swap and injectors. Probably £1-2k depending on if you can fit it yourself. Sure, a mapped GTI will be similar to a standard ED30, but if your happy enough mapping a car in the first place, and have the budget for an ED30, then it's the way to go. Better to spend that extra monies on getting an ED30 and having something that will still be worth that couple grand extra investment.

Of course, the OP already has that engine in his Leon, so why he would consider downgrading his engine for a mapped GTI would be beyond me, just like I probably wouldn't, at least immediately, be "upgrading" to an S3 where he only gains the 4WD.

 

[nas]

Any one in the 8P shape, so 2003/4 onwards. They are all K04 engined. Just like the Edition 30.

I wouldn't say an S3 is a better purchase, necessarily, than the ED30. They have basically the same engines (although the brakes and inter-coolers are smaller I believe on the ED30).

I disagree, basically, with what nas says. Buying an ED30 isn't really like buying a GTI. It's more like a FWD S3, being that they share basically the same engine. So you can save a couple grand on the purchase price with an ED30 (instead of an S3), then spend the same on a map on the ED30 as you would on a map on the S3, and have exactly the same performance. But for a couple grand less.

To get the same power out of a mapped mk5 GTI as you would out of a mapped ED30, you need, at the minimum, a turbo swap and injectors. Probably £1-2k depending on if you can fit it yourself. Sure, a mapped GTI will be similar to a standard ED30, but if your happy enough mapping a car in the first place, and have the budget for an ED30, then it's the way to go. Better to spend that extra monies on getting an ED30 and having something that will still be worth that couple grand extra investment.

Of course, the OP already has that engine in his Leon, so why he would consider downgrading his engine for a mapped GTI would be beyond me, just like I probably wouldn't, at least immediately, be "upgrading" to an S3 where he only gains the 4WD.

I see you've recently bought one, suppose that explains why you have such a slanted view.

 

[Blackhawk47]

Buying a edition 30...is exactly like buying a GTI. Because that's what it is??

 

[xs2man]

I see you've recently bought one, suppose that explains why you have such a slanted view.

Yes, I have just bought one. You are correct on that front. And perhaps it has "slanted" my view to some extent.

BUT, you were talking about power here.

If you're talking more power before purchasing then maybe you should be looking at a faster car to begin with (8P1 S3 perhaps, however these only come in manual, which might be a problem if you're after a DSG).

I wouldn't say the extra power justifies the variance either, especially when a stage 1 map on a mk5 will address the power shortfall - the rest is just cosmetic.

ED30's hold their value, but after the novelty wears off you're still paying over the odds for a MK5 GTI (unless you really like the ed30), the S3 would be a better buy if you're after the power, so save a few grand and buy a late MK5 (57/08).

And there is very little difference between the engines in an Edition 30 and an S3. So when you say the OP should just get something faster in the first place, perhaps you are correct, but the S3 is probably not the way to go. S4 maybe, or M135i / 335i perhaps. Something that doesn't have, essentially, the same engine, and so the same power potential.

And sure, as you said, a remap addresses the power difference between a normal GTI and an ED30, but equally, a remap more than addresses the power difference between an ED30 and the S3 you suggested.

On top of that, after a remap, the GTI needs much bigger modifications to "catch up" to the power of remapped ED30's and S3's. Whereas after the remap, there is very little extra cost per bhp between an S3 and an ED30 when considering further tuning possibilities.

Of course, when you are up at these sorts of powers, the extra traction of the Quattro and the extra stopping power of the bigger brakes on the S3 may well be a good thing to consider. But on a purely power and tuning potential basis, there is no reason to pick the more expensive S3 over a cheaper ED30.

Buying a edition 30...is exactly like buying a GTI. Because that's what it is??

Yes, in general. As an overall package. But as the conversation was about engines and power outputs at the time, then I stand by my statement. As re-expressed above.

I disagree, basically, with what nas says. Buying an ED30 isn't really like buying a GTI. It's more like a FWD S3, being that they share basically the same engine. So you can save a couple grand on the purchase price with an ED30 (instead of an S3), then spend the same on a map on the ED30 as you would on a map on the S3, and have exactly the same performance. But for a couple grand less.

In the context simply of the engines potential, there is a MUCH bigger difference between the ED30 and GTI than ED30 and S3.

 

[DeanT77]

Coming from a stage 1 Leon K1, I would say if you want decent power then go for the S3, there is no sense in having all that grunt - these engines are torque beasts - if you can't get it to the road, budget permitting of course.

If it's dry roads then you are laughing but damp/wet and it becomes a struggle.

If you plan to keep an S3 standard though then I would say go for Cupra/ED30 as they are heavy cars and dont feel fast at all in standard guise IMO.

My S3 is 2+ by R-Tech, which equates to 370bhp/390lb/ft.
I'm not a fan of the standard brakes either, which is why I upgraded to AP 2 piece discs and TTRS calipers, the brakes on my K1 were superb.

 

[nas]

Any one in the 8P shape, so 2003/4 onwards. They are all K04 engined. Just like the Edition 30.

I wouldn't say an S3 is a better purchase, necessarily, than the ED30. They have basically the same engines (although the brakes and inter-coolers are smaller I believe on the ED30). they don't have the same power output, so you're taking my initial point out of context

I disagree, basically, with what nas says. Buying an ED30 isn't really like buying a GTI. It's more like a FWD S3, being that they share basically the same engine. So you can save a couple grand on the purchase price with an ED30 (instead of an S3), then spend the same on a map on the ED30 as you would on a map on the S3, and have exactly the same performance. But for a couple grand less.as above re: context. an s3 is circa 265 standard, so how do you have the same performance when comparing like for like, i.e. mapped ed30 v mapped s3? unless you're really deviating here with power to weight etc to hammer home your point across?

To get the same power out of a mapped mk5 GTI as you would out of a mapped ED30, you need, at the minimum, a turbo swap and injectors. Probably £1-2k depending on if you can fit it yourself. Sure, a mapped GTI will be similar to a standard ED30, but if your happy enough mapping a car in the first place, and have the budget for an ED30, then it's the way to go. Better to spend that extra monies on getting an ED30 and having something that will still be worth that couple grand extra investment.
why would anyone do that? why not simply buy an ed30 and map it. Again if power is the main goal here, its better to start off with a car with more power and loosely the same characteristics.

Of course, the OP already has that engine in his Leon, so why he would consider downgrading his engine for a mapped GTI would be beyond me, just like I probably wouldn't, at least immediately, be "upgrading" to an S3 where he only gains the 4WD.

Yes, I have just bought one. You are correct on that front. And perhaps it has "slanted" my view to some extent.

BUT, you were talking about power here.



And there is very little difference between the engines in an Edition 30 and an S3. So when you say the OP should just get something faster in the first place, perhaps you are correct, but the S3 is probably not the way to go. S4 maybe, or M135i / 335i perhaps. Something that doesn't have, essentially, the same engine, and so the same power potential.consider cost here.

And sure, as you said, a remap addresses the power difference between a normal GTI and an ED30, but equally, a remap more than addresses the power difference between an ED30 and the S3 you suggested. and a map addresses the difference between an s3 and s4? I see very little point in buying a car and heading straight off the forecourt to AMD/Revo for when you can start off with a quicker car and be content with it in standard form

On top of that, after a remap, the GTI needs much bigger modifications to "catch up" to the power of remapped ED30's and S3's. Whereas after the remap, there is very little extra cost per bhp between an S3 and an ED30 when considering further tuning possibilities.why do you keep banging on about a mapped GTI against a mapped ED30? If the OP is happy with the standard power of a ED30, I'd assume this would also be the case for a mapped GTI.

Of course, when you are up at these sorts of powers, the extra traction of the Quattro and the extra stopping power of the bigger brakes on the S3 may well be a good thing to consider. But on a purely power and tuning potential basis, there is no reason to pick the more expensive S3 over a cheaper ED30.
I'd agree if their power was identical

 

[Kenai]

"as above re: context. an s3 is circa 265 standard, so how do you have the same performance when comparing like for like, i.e. mapped ed30 v mapped s3?"

The engine in the Ed30 is virtually identical to the S3, after remapping both they're pretty much on par at 300bhp, even if the S3 started off in a higher state of tune.