British backpacker in Australia killed by French national yelling "Allahu akbar"

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Freefaller said:
I'm just a normal member, and I make mistakes. I happen to have an edit button, that's it.
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We all have an edit button - your button is able to able to project into the posts made by other people and therefore censor them. Surely that invokes a higher standard. I know this is unfair on you as you are a very good mod and a very nice chap but I am merely saying this theoretically.

Freefaller said:
Of course the fact they are Muslim is factual, but the point is, it is not BECAUSE they are Muslim that they are radical, they have been radicalised and are Muslim - it's not causal, which a lot of people constantly bang on about.
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Do you have any evidence to support that notion though? I know it's a tricky one but if we dissociated the influence of Islam on the radicalisation process then surely we have to disassociated the influence of poverty and repression on say for example black gang crime.
 
Xordium said:
We all have an edit button - your button is able to able to project into the posts made by other people and therefore censor them. Surely that invokes a higher standard. I know this is unfair on you as you are a very good mod and a very nice chap but I am merely saying this theoretically.
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Thank you for the kind words. But as you may have noticed I post less and less now, as I know I will be scrutinised - however you're right we do need to be even more vigilant of our posting behaviours. However, we do make mistakes we're only human!


Do you have any evidence to support that notion though? I know it's a tricky one but if we dissociated the influence of Islam on the radicalisation process then surely we have to disassociated the influence of poverty and repression on say for example black gang crime.
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I'm not suggesting that Islam has not got a problem with radicalism - I think radicalisation has happened across the world in various guises over the years, and I guess now it is just Islam's turn.

There have been dozens upon dozens of movements over the centuries, from the Crusades, to Marxism, Nazism and so on. In some cases it was disguised as revolution (France for example) but there is a world history of such behaviours.

Unfortunately, in this case it is heavily centred around people who follow Islam.

I know people are not saying this in here or often, but it is often implied that Islam = terrorist, which is distasteful and untrue.

There are some arguments where certain points are important for example;

"Man shoots disabled person". That is a shocking enough headline, but people then add "Black man shoots disabled person", or "Muslim man shoots disabled person" - those last two aren't really necessary... Certainly if it had nothing to do with race or religion and was just a mugging gone wrong.

I guess what I'm trying to say in a very convoluted way is that sweeping generalisations based on supposition is unfair and just breeds further unnecessary antagonism.
 
NoobCannon said:
^^

Prob get banned for saying that. The fsb will soon be here to mod it (and this prob)
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If I got banned for saying what I did above which was completely harmless I would question peoples sanity.

Freefaller said:
But we don't say the same when another black on black crime is committed or when another white supremacist has shot people (mainly in the states) or the plethora of other "common" group does something.

I think it is unfair to continually bang the "it's the Muslims" drum. Whereas it is a group of nutters that hide behind Islam as a way of appeasing any guilt for what they are doing.

Saying anything else is just sensationalism and just serves to create a bigger divide in society.
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As I said above so I don't get suspended or banned, I know it's not all Muslims as that would be silly and like saying all Christians want crusades but you just have to look with eyes wide open and learn, There is a very large part of the Islamic religion that condones these actions and actions like these are becoming a daily occurrence in every country on the planet and it's genuinely worrying as my family in Berlin has been affected by this and many more will be in the coming years.
 
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You can attempt to downplay the Islam connection, however the media love it and thus you cant possibly win against that.

Division is a crunchy nutritious breakfast for those at the top.
 
Freefaller said:
Of course the fact they are Muslim is factual, but the point is, it is not BECAUSE they are Muslim that they are radical, they have been radicalised and are Muslim - it's not causal, which a lot of people constantly bang on about.
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The fact they're Muslim is rather relevant actually - they already adhere to the same base beliefs for a start...

however the point wasn't stating that 'the fact they are Muslim is factual' which is rather a surplus/circular thing to say but rather to dispute the idea that they were 'nutters' using Islam as an excuse when in fact Islam is the motivation behind their actions
 
Freefaller said:
But we don't say the same when another black on black crime is committed or when another white supremacist has shot people (mainly in the states) or the plethora of other "common" group does something.

I think it is unfair to continually bang the "it's the Muslims" drum. Whereas it is a group of nutters that hide behind Islam as a way of appeasing any guilt for what they are doing.

Saying anything else is just sensationalism and just serves to create a bigger divide in society.
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The problem is that the group is probably in it's millions around the world but mainly the ME and EU, said group is not in the 100's you know.

With so many Islamic terrorists and sympathisers about we are going to see more, much more. And guess what, they are all Muslim.

I am sick of the small minority argument when it clearly is not the case.
 
Arazi said:
The problem is that the group is probably in it's millions around the world but mainly the ME and EU, said group is not in the 100's you know.

With so many Islamic terrorists and sympathisers about we are going to see more, much more. And guess what, they are all Muslim.

I am sick of the small minority argument when it clearly is not the case.
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You are asking people to use logic and common sense in a time of extreme political correctness AKA wilfully ignorant and blind.
 
To claim that the group of people responsible for the greatest day to day security threat to Western society are hiding behind a religion, as opposed to openly embracing its core values, is naive in the absolute extreme.

It also doesn't logically follow, otherwise we'd also get daily terrorist atrocities in the name of other well-represented religious populations.
 
Participant said:
To claim that the group of people responsible for the greatest day to day security threat to Western society are hiding behind a religion, as opposed to openly embracing its core values, is naive in the absolute extreme.

It also doesn't logically follow, otherwise we'd also get daily terrorist atrocities in the name of other well-represented religious populations.
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Sarcasm?

If so :D
 
Ok, so back on topic please.

Arazi if you want to raise an issue with moderating please post in the FCD section. Further posts will be deleted.
 
diamount said:
Except we're not going to get such insight from Arazi or Raohns, they've made it perfectly clear countless times before what their biases and agendas are. I also have no problem with such news being reported, but what gets me is the added agendas they decide to spin without actual confirmation or facts to back it up, labeling everything a conspiracy because they aren't confirming the spiel their favourite right-leaning rag reported on.
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When there is a report that someone slaughtered someone while shouting an arabic phrase we know which group it is and what's behind it as it is happening more and more and at faster rates than ever before.

At this point in present time you really don't need to wait for the end results to know exactly what's going on.

*EDIT*

Errr Mr Mod, I wasn't complaining about any modding, I was on topic, Why was my comment deleted ? Are we going down that route again ? :(
 
So many people quoted the deleted post that I simply removed the posts. Don't hate me.
 
Freefaller said:
Thank you for the kind words. But as you may have noticed I post less and less now, as I know I will be scrutinised - however you're right we do need to be even more vigilant of our posting behaviours. However, we do make mistakes we're only human!




I'm not suggesting that Islam has not got a problem with radicalism - I think radicalisation has happened across the world in various guises over the years, and I guess now it is just Islam's turn.

There have been dozens upon dozens of movements over the centuries, from the Crusades, to Marxism, Nazism and so on. In some cases it was disguised as revolution (France for example) but there is a world history of such behaviours.

Unfortunately, in this case it is heavily centred around people who follow Islam.

I know people are not saying this in here or often, but it is often implied that Islam = terrorist, which is distasteful and untrue.

There are some arguments where certain points are important for example;

"Man shoots disabled person". That is a shocking enough headline, but people then add "Black man shoots disabled person", or "Muslim man shoots disabled person" - those last two aren't really necessary... Certainly if it had nothing to do with race or religion and was just a mugging gone wrong.

I guess what I'm trying to say in a very convoluted way is that sweeping generalisations based on supposition is unfair and just breeds further unnecessary antagonism.
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You've touched on some interesting examples.

Nazism for example lead people down a dark and disgusting path yet the root cause was the ideology. Some followers of national socialism were pretty much the worst human beings that have ever been spawned. Others...well they were heroes. They risked their lives to save hundreds and sometimes thousands of innocents.

Why can it not be entertained by many that perhaps islam also has a dangerous ideology hence why so many atrocities are carried out in its name?
 
Dicehunter said:
When there is a report that someone slaughtered someone while shouting an arabic phrase we know which group it is and what's behind it as it is happening more and more and at faster rates than ever before.

At this point in present time you really don't need to wait for the end results to know exactly what's going on.
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What group would that be? The police already ruled out it being terror related.
 
diamount said:
What group would that be? The police already ruled out it being terror related.
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Terror usually means he/she is tied to a group from what I have seen i.e ISIS, Al-Qaeda etc....This instance is still driven by an extremely violent religious doctrine hence the person shouting "Allahu Akbar" which is usually followed by someone dying.

Denying this problem exists, Is getting worse and burying ones head in the sand will not make it go away.

Even an old school mate of mine who is muslim but not practising cannot understand the wests inability to confront reality and neither can I.

If it walks like a duck, Quacks like a duck, Looks like a duck, Then it's not a giraffe, But a bleeding duck ! :p
 
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