Brexit thread - what happens next

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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Just coming back to this one, as I work closely alongside a lawyer I mentioned this to him.

He said no, in regards the against the rules.

Its not, nothing in the rules says you cannot pre negotiate anything IN fact you could negotiate the whole thing, trigger A50 and then they could immediately ratify it. There is some added complexity if certain areas are included in the deal though (which are the ones we would be most interested in negotiating) that would mean in all likelyhood the Eu parliament would be directly involved, precisely those who say no negotiation.

So you could in theory negotiate with all the member states and agree a full proposition, but if (as is almost 100% likely) that would cut across areas that the EU parliament would have some say over then they could refuse.

This sounds logical, in that Junker said no negotiation before A50 triggered, he can't for example stop Merkel (should she so choose) from agreeing what Germany would accept as part of our exit. There could be a crack there depending if the member states did start to edge towards exit themselves in that they may be far more willing to go against Junker and come to the table with agreed propositions.

I hadnt considered this at all.
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Errr yes he can.

Because an individual nation of the EU cannot negotiate with another.

So unless all these negotiations took place in secret they would be blocked.

Eu has also stated they will not negotiate untill after article 50 as they cannot negotiate with one of thierbown.

The uk cannot negotiate with outside countries as a single eu member state cannot hold negotiatiosn with countries outside the eu.

Saying you can get it dont before article 50 is a lie
 
It's not really helpful to use terms such as 'dictator' and 'ideological crusade' when talking about Juncker. For sure, he's disagreeable and wants to take the EU in a direction a lot of countries aren't that happy with, not just the UK. But ultimately he's elected (by MEPs, not directly by the public of course) and if MEPs (and by extension the national parties they represent) aren't happy with his leadership they can depose him once his 5-year term is up. Or sooner if the European Parliament uses a vote of censure, although this isn't likely to happen unless he really spins out of control.

It seems very strange that in a union of 28 countries, with all the different national and supra-national factions in the European Parliament, that there's such an obsession about one man's role. Junckers isn't the EU, even if he might like to think he is.
 
delta0 said:
The tax harmonisation begins. Good luck Ireland. Sorry we can't save you from this anymore :(
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...brussels-tax-investigations-amid-apple-probe/
Low tax could be classed as state aid if confirmed in the courts next month.
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What's wrong with forcing multinational companies to pay appropriate levels of tax on their profits to the appropriate tax authorities? It's hardly fair to have several countries within the EU operating essentially as tax havens. It's no different to what Amazon were doing via Luxembourg to avoid paying higher taxes on profits made in countries with higher corporate taxation, such as the UK.
 
Cern said:
What's wrong with forcing multinational companies to pay appropriate levels of tax on their profits to the appropriate tax authorities? It's hardly fair to have several countries within the EU operating essentially as tax havens. It's no different to what Amazon were doing via Luxembourg to avoid paying higher taxes on profits made in countries with higher corporate taxation, such as the UK.
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Appropriate levels is an interpretation that differs between countries. I'm sure Ireland feel their rate is appropriate.
 
delta0 said:
Appropriate levels is an interpretation that differs between countries. I'm sure Ireland feel their rate is appropriate.
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Well therein lies the problem. The EU is above all else an economic union. You can't have one country setting massively lower taxes to attract multinationals, essentially becoming a form of tax haven by channelling all their profits (made throughout the whole EU) through that country. So yes, it's a form of state aid.
 
Tefal said:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/27/europe-leaders-crunch-talks-brexit-fallout

Hint, individual nations not being alowed to perform individual trade negotiations is kind of a big corner stone of the eu...




http://www.theguardian.com/politics...malmstrom-eu-trade-commissioner-brexit-uk-wto



But hey whag do the president of the eu, the eu trade commissioner and the leaders of germany, france and Italy know eh?
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Sorry but that's just wrong.

If you want to just pull bits out of papers good luck to you, personally I would go with legal on a legal matter

There are boards where these chaps discuss stuff, blogs etc

As I said because I was told, the areas we negotiate will require ratification by more than the leaders, doesn't mean they cannon agree unofficially before formally agreeing.
Backroom discussions is what the EU do, its precisely why Junker made such a point to say the officials wouldn't (be allowed to) do it. He has no ability to stop an individual nation negotiation/discussing/whatever. BUT they cant do a deal of course that has to happen within the EU frameworks.

Just look at the Scot indy ref, plenty of differing views from within the Eu, its not black and white, its politics ;)
 
Cern said:
What's wrong with forcing multinational companies to pay appropriate levels of tax on their profits to the appropriate tax authorities? It's hardly fair to have several countries within the EU operating essentially as tax havens. It's no different to what Amazon were doing via Luxembourg to avoid paying higher taxes on profits made in countries with higher corporate taxation, such as the UK.
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Because it's the only way small countries can compete with the likes of Germany.

This disgusts me tbh. Watching Merkel as the "voice" of the EU controlling the smaller members regulations, spending and now tax systems all for her benefit.
 
Not surprising that the vast majority of the media are desperately trying to avoid saying that the 5 men washed up at Camber sands could possibly be illegals.
They are saying they have no idea who they are but think there is at least 1 more floating about so they're not telling the truth.

Described as fully clothed black men in the exact place you would expect to find illegals so no reason to think they might be from North Africa via France.
Probably fell in at Calais as apparently they're all mental health cases.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Sorry but that's just wrong.

If you want to just pull bits out of papers good luck to you, personally I would go with legal on a legal matter

There are boards where these chaps discuss stuff, blogs etc

As I said because I was told, the areas we negotiate will require ratification by more than the leaders, doesn't mean they cannon agree unofficially before formally agreeing.
Backroom discussions is what the EU do, its precisely why Junker made such a point to say the officials wouldn't (be allowed to) do it. He has no ability to stop an individual nation negotiation/discussing/whatever. BUT they cant do a deal of course that has to happen within the EU frameworks.

Just look at the Scot indy ref, plenty of differing views from within the Eu, its not black and white, its politics ;)
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Ok so the;

President of the EU,
The trade commissioner of the EU

Say the EU will not negotiate before article 50 is enacted.


The leaders of

France
Germany
Italy

Say they will not negotiate before article 50 is enacted.



But some guy on a blog says they will so theyre all wrong.



I'm sure this will come as a shock to them as they are frog marched ibtoa secret meeting room to have a negotiation they have said they will not have...
 
John40 said:
Not surprising that the vast majority of the media are desperately trying to avoid saying that the 5/6 men washed up at Camber sands could possibly be illegals.

Described as fully clothed black men in the exact place you would expect to find illegals so no reason to think they might be from North Africa via France.
Probably fell in at Calais as apparently they're all mental health cases.
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Anyone fancy a punt as to how long it will be before the UK has ships in the Channel ferrying them safely ashore, just like in the Med'? You know, those people smuggler deterrent ships that actually officially smuggle thousands ashore into Europe every month? You can't even go for a paddle without stepping on an illegal migrant now, what a bleedin' fiasco.
 
Chris Wilson said:
Anyone fancy a punt as to how long it will be before the UK has ships in the Channel ferrying them safely ashore, just like in the Med'? You know, those people smuggler deterrent ships that actually officially smuggle thousands ashore into Europe every month? You can't even go for a paddle without stepping on an illegal migrant now, what a bleedin' fiasco.
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Will we be allowed to man MG42 nests on the Kent Coast?
 
Chris Wilson said:
Anyone fancy a punt as to how long it will be before the UK has ships in the Channel ferrying them safely ashore, just like in the Med'? You know, those people smuggler deterrent ships that actually officially smuggle thousands ashore into Europe every month? You can't even go for a paddle without stepping on an illegal migrant now, what a bleedin' fiasco.
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We mustn't jump to conclusions says the PC BBC they might have been a group of Africans who all got washed out to sea whilst sunbathing.
 
Tefal said:
Ok so the;

President of the EU,
The trade commissioner of the EU

Say the EU will not negotiate before article 50 is enacted.


The leaders of

France
Germany
Italy

Say they will not negotiate before article 50 is enacted.



But some guy on a blog says they will so theyre all wrong.



I'm sure this will come as a shock to them as they are frog marched ibtoa secret meeting room to have a negotiation they have said they will not have...
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Jeez do you have comprehension fail or something

Can is not Will, of course they CAN choose not to, but they CAN choose to.
So before it was they they couldn't, now its they don't want to.

The point always was that they COULD CHOOSE to.

They MAY change their mind, they MAY not. I suspect they will, or probably already have had conversations, even if its just to confirm they aren't open to negotiation on certain points.

Despite popularist views that Merkel runs the EU as pupper master, in theory some votes could go against her and france combined. Look up the qualified majority voting.

Some things that would be covered by Brexit would come under this area, extending A50 negotiation terms would be a 100% vote but from what I hear not the acceptance of a deal, could be wrong though, as ever EU have conflicting articles which is why they often have to be rewritten or get challenged.
 
John40 said:
We mustn't jump to conclusions says the PC BBC they might have been a group of Africans who all got washed out to sea whilst sunbathing.
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Lol

Whats more likely, they jumped over board when close to the coast thinking they could swim ashore, avoiding customs.

As much as I am against uncontrolled immigration its hard to see how to stop it. Its always happened, people will migrate from poor and war torn areas to better ones.

Look at it from the individuals perspective, if they are willing to risk their life to move that pretty much tells you how bad it is.
We have people on welfare complaining at the mention of moving them from a very expensive area to a cheaper area because of family or similar.

What I find interesting is that normally the people who complain most about borders/immigration etc are the ones who also complain about foreign aid.
 
I heard on the radio this morning that the NHS is going to try to help sort something to allow the 57,000 non British workers to stay. That's a lot of people - if they were forced to leave, or decided to leave that would be quite a blow.

Admittedly they are not all European, many of them are from outside the EU. That's a lot of people though!
 
Freefaller said:
I heard on the radio this morning that the NHS is going to try to help sort something to allow the 57,000 non British workers to stay. That's a lot of people - if they were forced to leave, or decided to leave that would be quite a blow.

Admittedly they are not all European, many of them are from outside the EU. That's a lot of people though!
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Thing is they may not even be forced to leave.

I guess the NHS is worried that they will voluntarily leave due to atmosphere, fear of being forced to leave etc

Its no problem though, all the jobs that dem migrants have been taking will be filled by the UK nationals that have been losing out. right? ;)
 
Freefaller said:
I heard on the radio this morning that the NHS is going to try to help sort something to allow the 57,000 non British workers to stay. That's a lot of people - if they were forced to leave, or decided to leave that would be quite a blow.

Admittedly they are not all European, many of them are from outside the EU. That's a lot of people though!
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I haven't heard a single person say deport those working/already settled before the vote.

I don't even know why it's getting air time it's just the reasonable thing to do, media probably trying the hardest for something provocative.
 
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