What are people's thoughts on the burkini ban in France?

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Angilion said:
A good point...and clothing is a big part of displaying and strengthening division between "us" and "them". So your argument also goes against your point as well as in favour of it.

I'm on the fence about it. On the one hand, it is a display of seperation and different allegience and thus of conquest. On the other hand, it could be a compromise that might reduce those things. Maybe. Possibly.
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People who dismiss it as being just trousers, a long sleeved shirt and a bathing cap are either completely failing to understand the point or are pretending to do so for rhetorical reasons.
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Well said, pretty much what amp and asim do when there is a thread regarding Islam, plus a good few more apologists.

Symbols chosen to display a particular meaning and/or to proclaim allegience to a particular ideology have far more meaning than their literal ones. A Christian cross is just two lines...but it isn't. A white flag is just a piece of cloth...but it isn't. A CND symbol is just a few lines in a circle...but it isn't. An orange sash is just a piece of cloth...but it isn't (not in Ireland, anyway). And so on.
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Why do people not understand this?
 
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RoboCod said:
I don't think nuns and vicars quite compare, after all they are members of the church/preachers/lecturers and "operatives" in God's name. A woman who wears a burkini or burka is not.

A burkini is not just religiously influenced but also culturally. The vicar and nun outfits are not... You don't casually slip on a nun outfit and pop out to town because your local culture influences you to. Blurred but subtle differences.

Needless to say, wearing a vicar, nun or burkini anywhere in the world should not be an issue for anyone and shouldn't raise any kind of discrimination against you, particularly in the free Western world!
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Well said. Just highlights how hopeless people are at differentiation and how they will milk anything to suit their agenda.

Also what you said a page ago is coming true. Being called apologists when we're being rational. Amazing. It's always the same people being rational and the same people doing the agenda pushing.
 
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Arazi said:
Why do people not understand this?
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Because that is all subjective. No one knows the meaning of a white flag unless you've been told.

There are absolutely NO islamic logos or symbols on a burkini. The only reason you hate it is because you've been told it's "Islamic".

You've been told a swimming cap and leggings are some pinnacle if Islamic symbolism, that's why you hate it so much. Before you became so informed of religious outfits from your usual news sources, a swimming cap and leggings would remain a swimming cap and leggings. Now you have been told to believe it's some sort of political/military uniform complete with invisible Islamic symbols. :D

Simple. Why don't you understand why you hate the burkini so much?..... Oh that's right. It's an irrational hate. :)
 
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I think we've established it's about what they represent and not how they look.

Although there are some security concerns imo, there have been numerous examples of people/terrorists using them to hide and escape capture.
 
Angilion said:
No, I think there's a partial eclipse of the moon.

When I see a particular crescent moon and stars symbol made by a person I see a symbol that has a meaning other than a curved line and some shapes.

You can't possibly be so limited in your understanding that you can't understand that a symbol has a meaning other than its physical form. If you were that limited you wouldn't be able to read or write because you wouldn't be able to understand the concept of a letter, let alone words. You would only be able to see the physical forms of letters - they would be meaningless lines to you.

So you are pretending to not understand when you are making your "reply" to my post, as a rhetorical device. Which only goes to show that you don't have a real reply.
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You sussed him quick :)
 
Arazi said:
You sussed him quick :)
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So is the swimming cap embellished with Islamic writing and logos or is it not?

You seem to hold a delusional belief that it is embellished with islamic symbols/writing.

It is not, it is simply in your head, as has been proven by the fact that if the media hadn't told you, you wouldn't give a hoot.

You just irrationally hate everything remotely to do with islam and muslims which is why you are absolutely incapable of a rational debate on any such topics.
 
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asim18 said:
You're still in denial of any practical application of clothing and still assuming its some sort of military or political insignia. Lol.
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No, it represents a religion, don't you see that? Yes you do but you won't admit it, as always.

Amp will be along with similar again soon.
 
MookJong said:
What a lot of people seem to be missing is that this piece of clothing is intrinsically linked to a religious ideology. To compare it to a t-shirt leggings and swimming cap is misleading and dishonest.

You need to compare it to people dressing as nuns, priests or vicars to go to the beach. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that but to ignore this part of the argument (especially on purpose) doesn't help persuade those who are against it and just makes you look silly.
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Correct.
 
Arazi said:
Fixed.
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Really?

So how the heck are they even at the beach then? Surely their husbands would have forbade such public socialisation with their girlfriends.

Why do you simply deny that lack of confidence in showing their naked bodies has nothing do do with covering up?

And double standards AGAIN. You're forbidding them from wearing what they WANT yet you're whining about their husbands not letting them do so!?!?

Your irrationality is so blatant.
 
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TBH if their religion forbids it and they choose to follow that religion, then so be it, as long as it causes no harm to others.

Homeopathic practitioners can drink all the water they want to cure their illness, so long as they don't convince others that it works.
 
How would you know it is a lack of confidence? and if you really think about that statement, what would be the odds of that happening in the case of the opening post.
 
Arazi said:
How would you know it is a lack of confidence? and if you really think about that statement, what would be the odds of that happening in the case of the opening post.
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Because these women have finally found something they are comfortable in at the beach and which isn't an actual burka.

You cant simply be inherantly confident in getting your **** and arse out on a beach when no one has ever seen you naked before. Women go through a long process of increasing self confidence in their naked bodies.

A woman who's been covered up all her life is not going to be as confident as someone who's been half naked all their life. Are you really denying this as well? As I already said you are beyond hope.
 
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Avenged7Fold said:
TBH if their religion forbids it and they choose to follow that religion, then so be it, as long as it causes no harm to others.

Homeopathic practitioners can drink all the water they want to cure their illness, so long as they don't convince others that it works.
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I agree with you on that 100%.

It should also be kept private, not in public view etc, that goes for other religions, keep it private, we wouldnt have so many problems around the world if all religions where made to be kept as private, home and place of worship, that's it.

Never going to happen in my lifetime sadly.

Would be interesting to see what the world would have been like for let's say the past 150 years, without any religious problems\atrocities.
 
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