New Philippines president...

Shinawatra did the same thing in Thailand, used the police and vigilante death squads to kill drug addicts and dealers, but also used it as a cover to kill anyone he didnt like.

We are talking about populations of mostly poorly educated people that are easily manipulated by rhetoric and propaganda.
 
cheesyboy said:
Off licences? Book makers?

Off with their heads.
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I acknowledged in my original post that there are legals forms of creating misery, but none are as immediately destructive as hard drugs. You can drink and gamble casually, but you cannot use heroin casually.

For the record I do occasionally gamble and consume alcohol. I recognise both are vices and damaging to both myself and society. But some vices are more tolerable than others in the real world. Ideally we could have a society where neither existed, but that is not very realistic. People need some vices to feel alive.

And exactly what sort of level of proof would you deem sufficient for an extra judicial killing or murder as it's normally known in the civilised world to be allowed?

This guy has created a situation where virtually anyone can get away with murder by saying "yeah it's a drug dealer", and where people are apparently being paid to kill without question.

There are very good reasons why lynch mobs and vigilante justice is generally not approved of in most of the modern world, you invariably end up with large numbers of people being accused and killed because of grudges and arguments.
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I don't approve of vigilantism, but then we don't have the same scale of a problem here so I can afford to be moral. In general however I believe that the death of a few innocents is a worthwhile price to pay for the annihilation of a major drugs problem.
 
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Any effective war will have undesired casualties, at least there is action seemingly being taken against what is an ingrained culture of drug supply and abuse. Do you have alternative, cost effective suggestions for bringing an end to it? This is industrial scale illegal drugs manufacture and export we are talking about.
 
Chris Wilson said:
The debtor mentioned in the article was also a drug dealer....
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He was not a dealer but just said to be a dealer.

There were reports of police using the excuse of drugs to kill people who owed debts. A Filipino senator and former justice minister had mentioned this openly.

One influential Philippine senator has called for an investigation into the killings. In a speech before the senate, Leila de Lima, a former justice minister, said: “We cannot wage the war against drugs with blood. We will only be trading drug addiction with another more malevolent kind of addiction. This is the compulsion for more killing.”

De Lima, who has also headed the Philippines’ national human rights body, said police were summarily killing even innocent people, using the anti-drugs campaign as an excuse.
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Only a fraction of the murders are being counted into Dutertes statistics, usually ones which can be linked to suspicion through evidence or just hearsay.

Family members of victims have come out saying that the victims were not pushers or addicts and some of them saying that they were just users. More dead bodies with gunshot injuries to the head are being found than is being reported by police, some with signs on them telling them to be one kind of criminal or another.

But many of the families of the victims believe their loved ones were innocent, with some saying that they had just used drugs not dealt them, others refuting any links to narcotics at all. Tiamson's family said in the Times that she was a hard-working communications student that had spent her time in a church choir.

Her body was found with a message saying: "Don't be like her. She is a pusher" but Tiamson's parents say they are happy to have her body tested to prove she was never a user.

Another victim, Michael Siaron, 29, was shot dead by unknown assailants on motorcycles. A photo of his bereaved wife, Jennelyn Olaires, crying as she held his body went viral in the Philippines. According to Reuters, Olaires said Siaron made money by riding a pedicab, a bicycle with a sidecar, and did odd jobs to make money, and although he used drugs he was not a dealer.

"Anyone can kill and get away with it in the current climate," said Rachel Chhoa-Howard, who researches the Philippines for the human rights group Amnesty International. "We don't know exactly who's committing these killings, but what we have is a leader at the top who appears to condone and outright encourage [them]."

And Phelim Kine, a deputy director of Human Rights Watch in Asia, described the killings as "government-sanctioned butchery". Kine said: "These approaches are essentially government-sanctioned butchery in which the rule of law is completely thrown under the bus".
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News reporters were more outspoken prior to his presidency but after he said that journalists are not exempt from assassination if they are a 'son of a bitch' to him, few speak out against him through official medias. There are stories of Filipinos who are so sure of their family's innocents they are calling for blood tests or proof of suspicion at least.

Users are being counted as dealers and so are also killed. Low income areas are essentially lawless in parts, ruled by those firing the trigger and pointing the fingers.


How can there be any doubt that innocents have died after thousands of killing without trial or evidence, where accusation originally came from other citizens as much as law enforcers.

This is not an effective war against drugs. It has created more desperation in slums which were most badly effected by drugs. The crime has changed from drug pushing to murder. I dont call that a good thing and it wont be effected because he wont last long and as soon as he is gone, the market will flood again and his involvement would only encourage open conflict born from suspecting your neighbour. He is running this like he is another gang-lord that has the muscle to take territory.
 
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Chris Wilson said:
Any effective war will have undesired casualties, at least there is action seemingly being taken against what is an ingrained culture of drug supply and abuse. Do you have alternative, cost effective suggestions for bringing an end to it? This is industrial scale illegal drugs manufacture and export we are talking about.
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I don't have an alternative plan but i would argue that state sponsored mass murder isn't the answer. People are being paid to kill at the behest of corrupt police officers for gods sake! This is far from a well planned war on drug cartels like you see in places like Mexico, this is a witch hunt.
 
Thompson_NCL said:
I'd be accepting the same risk as anyone else if I lived in a society where this was necessary. It may be I'd feel differently were I in the firing line, but that would be a strictly emotional reaction, not a rational one.
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You are not being rational if you think this was necessary. How is mass murder a good exchange for a temporary lowering of drug trade. You think this will last forever?

The second killings stop, it will be on the rise. Keep the killings up and your new drug of choice for lower society is murder rather than meth.

Why do you think it is so bad that it was necessary?

The extreme catholic culture is linked to their extreme attitude on drugs. Being gay is heavily frowned upon over there and it would likely be preferred that peoples sons were users rather than homosexuals if that was the choice. Would it be necessary to hunt down homosexuals with that logic?
 
Thompson_NCL said:
I'd be accepting the same risk as anyone else if I lived in a society where this was necessary. It may be I'd feel differently were I in the firing line, but that would be a strictly emotional reaction, not a rational one.
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Are you really trying to rationalist the mass murder of potentially innocent people? Because that seems to be the point you are making here
 
Jeps said:
Are you really trying to rationalist the mass murder of potentially innocent people? Because that seems to be the point you are making here
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considering that the suspects did not require evidence, nor trial or even documenting, this justice clearly does not take into account your innocence nor the potential for abuse.
 
my girlfriend is a Filipina, she seems to think he is a great guy.

I guess if he has the support of his people then he is carrying out their wishes. We cant really say too much, the police shoot, taser, beat, jail innocent people in this country.

Putting aside the politics and who is right or wrong, its funny he has insulted the president imo. Ef Obama, he should not come over here and tell us Brexit is a mistake before the referendum.
 
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